European Court of Justice - Data Retention Directive Invalid

[estebanrey]

I'm sick and tired of the EU standing up for our rights. UKIP have my vote for the next election.

Problem is you can pick examples from both sides. E-cigs for example, which the EU are desperately trying to regulate out of existence so the Big Tobacco and Pharmaceutical companies can keep their failed circular business plan safe.

The EU are great when it comes to protecting citizens rights in relation to a government wanting more power, it lets them show who's running the show and doesn't involve money. When it comes to regulating big business though, who often help finance them and sit on their boards, your rights become less important.

Besides, your anti-UKIP statement is a bit misplaced as Farage was condemning of the US and UK government after the Snowden revelations and said it was "dangerous" that the UK would follow suit, so if they wouldn't implement anyway then it's kind of a moot point. We live in a democracy and any invasion of privacy by one government could be scrapped by another if the public were that angry about it.

 

[estebanrey]

This has nothing to do with our secret spy agencies and the data they collect. (In secret.) They work to rules that are, well, secret.

It's more to do with data used in legal cases, drug dealers and the like.

The polices job has just been made much harder as they can no longer reference communication history with a court order.

I wonder how many court cases could collapse on the basis that the way evidence was collected is now deemed illegal.

The police job is also harder because we don't enforce CCTV in people's homes, but would you support that? A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Besides, if the strongest piece of evidence a police force has against a drug dealer is circumstantial evidence that someone phoned someone else at some point in time then I'd suggest their case was never that strong to begin with. Catching them with 2 kilos of cocaine in their house should be enough shouldn't it?

 

[kitch9]

The police job is also harder because we don't enforce CCTV in people's homes, but would you support that? A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Besides, if the strongest piece of evidence a police force has against a drug dealer is circumstantial evidence that someone phoned someone else at some point in time then I'd suggest their case was never that strong to begin with. Catching them with 2 kilos of cocaine in their house should be enough shouldn't it?

Nice strawman. ISP's holding a data trail which can only be accessed by a court order in the grand scheme of things solves more problems than it creates. IMO. This will have no affect on GCHQ as they will have their own secret systems in place.

 

[LordSplodge]

I am serious, collecting data about communications is not a breach of privacy unless someone unlawfully uses it imo. In this day and age with all the external threats faced by this country, retaining this sort of data would seem eminently sensible.

So you'd give up access to the Human Rights Act just so data can be collected against potential bogeymen? Not a trade off I want to make, I like the EU standing up for the people for a change.

Nice strawman.

Partially, we are starting to see intrusions into personal spaces. Proposed bans on smoking in cars* can easily be followed by banning smoking in houses too. Thin end of the wedge.

* If you smoke in a car that have kids in you need taking out and beating with a wet fish until you bleed but it is an example of how personal space is being encroached into.

 

[kitch9]

So you'd give up access to the Human Rights Act just so data can be collected against potential bogeymen? Not a trade off I want to make, I like the EU standing up for the people for a change.



Partially, we are starting to see intrusions into personal spaces. Proposed bans on smoking in cars* can easily be followed by banning smoking in houses too. Thin end of the wedge.

* If you smoke in a car that have kids in you need taking out and beating with a wet fish until you bleed but it is an example of how personal space is being encroached into.

From reading up it appears that the court has ruled that in its current form the directive has issues and it appears that it will be merely modified rather than scrapped.

Storm in a teacup it appears.

I'm a realist, organised crime is very organised, law enforcement do need all the help they can get. Drug dealers rarely sit in the house with 3kg of pure coke like a scene out of Scarface and a sign outside saying buy your coke here.

 

[BunnyKillBot]

mods: can we get a ban on the word ukip in unrelated threads because its getting a bit tedious

 

[BunnyKillBot]

Nice strawman. ISP's holding a data trail which can only be accessed by a court order in the grand scheme of things solves more problems than it creates. IMO. This will have no affect on GCHQ as they will have their own secret systems in place.

Also there are these people who have read up on the word 'strawman' but have no comprehension of metaphor, analogy, parable telling, parallel reasoning and congruence of ideas. It's very boring and makes me think of this guy:



edit: It's hugely ironic that these posters that reject every comparison as strawman is itself a strawman argument.