We're all God botherers, apparently

[dirtychinchilla]

That is a matter of interpretation....it is easily demonstrated that Jesus and indeed the modern Anglican Church preaches tolerance and inclusivity, just as it can be demonstrated that on some issues it still has one foot in the past...but history shows that Christian values in this country have led to a progressive and forward thinking society in the main.

Can we improve, can Christianity improve...of course it can...and it does. But it doesn't happen all at once and just because one Christian says one thing about his faith, doesn't mean every Christian thinks the same, take the current changes in the Anglican Church regarding women ordination and in the Catholic Church with the Pope trying to address the direction of the Catholic Church..both extolling the virtues of inclusivity and tolerance.

I agree with you that the modern Anglican Church and Jesus preach tolerance, but a religion is represented by the way in which its members act, which is not necessarily tolerant. "Christian values in this country have led to a progressive and forward thinking" I think HAVE here is the operative word. They seem now to stall progress wherever possible, at least in America, and they did here in terms of same sex marriage.

I know that the views of the few do not represent the views of all. Hopefully the Pope achieves the inclusivity and tolerance that is needed.

Why do you post in religious threads and get all worked up if you hate Her(god) that much?

My point was mainly that you were targeting Islam. I believe both religions to be intolerant.

 

[Vulcan]

We have Christian heritage, but we barely have a majority of Christians in this country, thank ****.

According to the last census though a surprising nearly 2/3rds of the population claimed to be Christian. Personally whilst this is nice for me to hear, I don't really believe it.

The Census does show as 59.5% Christian (and 25.7% no religion), however the Census is conducted in a way by which 1 member of a household answers for everyone else in that household. So it can be inaccurate.

The BSA survey says it's 42.9% Christian, 50.7% no religion.
YouGov poll (small sample) says 41% religious, 51.5% no religion.
European Social survey says 52.7% no religion.

Of course another problem is people will define themselves as Christian when they are not, purely for the status quo; because their parents were, or because they were christened.

 

[Castiel]

The Census does show as 59.5% Christian (and 25.7% no religion), however the Census is conducted in a way by which 1 member of a household answers for everyone else in that household. So it can be inaccurate.

The census is done individually, not by household. One member of the household doesn't answer for everyone, they all fill in census forms as individuals.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

What was the wording of the question when people were asked of their faith/religion? I find it hard to believe that 59% answered Christian.

 

[Castiel]

I agree with you that the modern Anglican Church and Jesus preach tolerance, but a religion is represented by the way in which its members act, which is not necessarily tolerant. "Christian values in this country have led to a progressive and forward thinking" I think HAVE here is the operative word. They seem now to stall progress wherever possible, at least in America, and they did here in terms of same sex marriage.

I know that the views of the few do not represent the views of all. Hopefully the Pope achieves the inclusivity and tolerance that is needed.

Don't confuse the Anglican Church with American conservative evangelism or Baptist movements. Also the church in this country still preaches inclusive and tolerant attitudes, it disagrees with a redefinition of marriage, as do lots of people, religious and non religious, but it doesn't preach that people should be persecuted for it, quite the opposite, even with things it disagree with it still preaches that we should tolerate those different from us etc....Whether gay marriage is progress or not is open to interpretation and shouldn't be a yardstick with which to judge the efficacy of an entire belief system, particularly when Cameron was talking about the Big Society, which the Church in this country has been doing for decades, if not centuries already and still does to this day.

 

[Vulcan]

The census is done individually, not by household. One member of the household doesn't answer for everyone, they all fill in census forms as individuals.

No, one person fills in the form on behalf of everyone there.

Thus a religious homeowner may define themselves and everyone under the roof as religious, when that may well not be the case.

 

[Castiel]

No, one person fills in the form on behalf of everyone there.

Thus a religious homeowner may define themselves and everyone under the roof as religious, when that may well not be the case.

No they don't...three adults in my household, three separate answers to that question. The census form has both household and individual portions to it each individual would answer the questions relevant to their status.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-met...ent/2011-census-questionnaire-for-england.pdf

 

[Efour]

What was the wording of the question when people were asked of their faith/religion? I find it hard to believe that 59% answered Christian.

why ?

Its a standard answer to me. I'm a non practicing christian.

i actually put Jedi.

 

[Judgeneo]

No they don't...three adults in my household, three separate answers to that question. The census form has both household and individual portions to it each individual would answer the questions relevant to their status.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-met...ent/2011-census-questionnaire-for-england.pdf

This is how its meant to be done, however its very common for one person to fill out the entire form.

 

[Malc]

What difference does it make where the values/ethics come from as long as they're agreed with and accepted?

Daft comment from somebody who seems to have a hypothetical and romantic view of the world.

 

[Castiel]

This is how its meant to be done, however its very common for one person to fill out the entire form.

How much evidence do you have that the majority of forms have wrong information on them and were filled in illegally?

It seems to be a device simply to ignore any results in the census that people do not like. You could argue that the large drop in Christianity in the census is due to atheist householders filling in the forms for their Christian housemates?

It just seems ridiculous to make such assumptions while saying that other polls from much smaller and sometimes targeted demographics are more accurate...it's like cherry picking data to suit your bias.

 

[Jokester]

I would imagine a lot of people identify themselves as being Christian in the census even though they don't believe in god.

 

[robgmun]

This is how its meant to be done, however its very common for one person to fill out the entire form.

I like how you keep moving the touchline to suit your arguments, it's very telling

 

[Castiel]

I would imagine a lot of people identify themselves as being Christian in the census even though they don't believe in god.

Indeed...and as we are discussing the idea that Britain is a culturally Christian country the question isn't really about individual beliefs in God, but in the cultural identity of the society in which we live. The thread title is misleading, because no one has said we are all believers...quite the contrary.

 

[Theophany]

Indeed...and as we are discussing the idea that Britain is a culturally Christian country the question isn't really about individual beliefs in God, but in the cultural identity of the society in which we live. The thread title is misleading, because no one has said we are all believers...quite the contrary.

Theophany posting a misleading thread title to spark debate and outrage amongst the ranks of GD, surely not?

 

[Castiel]

Theophany posting a misleading thread title to spark debate and outrage amongst the ranks of GD, surely not?

I know, its so unlike you...

Shaqattack!!!

 

[Judgeneo]

How much evidence do you have that the majority of forms have wrong information on them and were filled in illegally?

It seems to be a device simply to ignore any results in the census that people do not like. You could argue that the large drop in Christianity in the census is due to atheist householders filling in the forms for their Christian housemates?

It just seems ridiculous to make such assumptions while saying that other polls from much smaller and sometimes targeted demographics are more accurate...it's like cherry picking data to suit your bias.

I like how you keep moving the touchline to suit your arguments, it's very telling

I think you're missunderstanding me completely. I said it was very common, I did not claim a specific number, a majority, or that it hides results.

My only argument in this thread is that the tone of the government in the article sidelines the fact that the fastest growing religious orientation is non-religion, and that claiming we are a "christian country" is different from saying we a country with a heavilly christian influenced heritage

 

[The Running Man]

I think, like Richard Dawkins pointed out once, that beliefs don't really come into this...we are as a nation, culturally Christian and this is unlikely to change any time soon...this is what the MP's are referring to.

In what way are we culturally Christian? Sure we have some christian ( read pagan) rituals that we still observe.

But really I'd argue that things that define us culturally as being different from other eueppeans. For instance when Brits go abroad are they welcomed into the Costa del sol as Christians or are we frowned upon for being drunken louts?

If someone gets slapped in the street, do we all turn the other cheek?

We have colloquialised blasphemy like bloody hell, or jesus Christ. Even Americans look at you like you swore profanely.

When gareth bale scores a goal he does a heart symbol. Hernandez prays to god before kick off and looks to the sky when he scores.

When I think of Pakistan I think religious culture. When I think of Britain I do not.

when people from other countries think about Britain how do you feel they think about us?

 

[Castiel]

claiming we are a "christian country" is different from saying we a country with a heavilly christian influenced heritage

I don't agree that they were saying that UK was a country of Christians in the first place, I think they were saying that the UK is a country with a deeply held Christian Culture....and that is what a Christian Country is.

 

[AndyT]

There is only one god I worship: the Golden Turtle God

Stories of the Hoàn Kiếm turtle began in the fifteenth century with Lê Lợi, who became an emperor of Vietnam and founder of the Lê Dynasty. According to legend, Lê Lợi had a magic sword given to him by Kim Qui, the Golden Turtle God. One day, not long after the Chinese had accepted Vietnam’s independence, Lê Lợi was out boating on a lake in Hanoi. Suddenly a large turtle surfaced, took the sword from Lê Lợi, and dove back into the depths. Efforts were made to find both the sword and the turtle, but without success. Lê Lợi then acknowledged the sword had gone back to the Golden Turtle God and renamed the lake Hoàn Kiếm Lake (or Hồ Gươm), “The Lake of the Returned Sword”.

Oh, grow up.