Need suggestions for headphone upgrade

Marine-RX179 · 23 Apr 2014 at 16:32

At the moment, I have a Asus Vulcan ANC and Corsair Vengence 1300 headset for use with my PS Vita and PC (with Asus Xonar DX), and a Sennheiser CX400II for my Sony Xperia Z Ultra.

On my PC I tend game and watch movie but not listen to music that much, and I tends to only really listen to music on my Sony Xperia Z Ultra when I'm out and about.

I am aware that my Asus Xonar DX doesn't have a headphone amp, so should I get a headphone amp such as Fiio E17, so that I can use it for on my PC, my phone and my PS Vita? Also the reason I am considering the E17 is because of the DAC might be useful if I do get a PS4 few years down the line (for playing Japanese game titles). Are there any cheaper alternative to the E17 that I should consider?

Also, would my Asus Vulcan ANC/Corsair Vengence 1300 headset and Sennheiser CX400II have noticable benefit from headphone amp such as the Fiio E17, or would I be better off spending more money getting a better, proper non-gaming headphone (£100-£180 price range) with a wider-sound stage and to use with my PC, PS Vita, and phone? If so what headphone would be suitable for my use (Gaming and watching movie on PV, gaming on PS Vita, listening to music on my Sony Xperia Z Ultra)?

DataVampire · 23 Apr 2014 at 17:01

If you download the manual or look at it, it states the soundcard does indeed have a headphone amp, it just is not mentioned anywhere bare the manual. im not usre of the quality of it but it definatley says it has one

Cookeh · 23 Apr 2014 at 21:07

Your CX400IIs would be pointless combined with an amp, as would the headset.

Sort your headphones out first. Check the sticky and some of the older threads out for an idea of 'phones to research. Here's a few to get you started: DT770/Fidelio X1.

Both can easily be driven without an amp, but both, like all proper headphones, will benefit from one - namely it tightens them up and increases refinement.

Ryanr1987 · 23 Apr 2014 at 21:25

Buy a good, efficient headphone.

K267 used
ATH A900x
Mad Dog used local.
Q701
DT770
D600 or D2000 used
HM5 with Alpha pads
K550
Pro 750 used
MA900 used

All have medium to large stages, are not hard to drive although the Q701 and 702 wlll are less sensitive, they can be driven for quite cheap but look into the others first.

Marine-RX179 · 24 Apr 2014 at 10:35

Ryanr1987 said:
Buy a good, efficient headphone.

K267 used
ATH A900x
Mad Dog used local.
Q701
DT770
D600 or D2000 used
HM5 with Alpha pads
K550
Pro 750 used
MA900 used

All have medium to large stages, are not hard to drive although the Q701 and 702 wlll are less sensitive, they can be driven for quite cheap but look into the others first.

I had the chance to try the D2000 at a local HMV 1 or 2 years back, and recall was quite impressed by it. I think the D2000 is now discontinued, so how does the DT770 and the X1 comparing to it?

Also while looking at the DT770, I noticed the DT990 as well around the same price range. Are there any reason that the DT770 seem to be more recommended than the DT990? Also the DT880 seem to be around 50% more expensive than the two...any reason for that?

For the DT770 I noticed there are different Ohm versions (32, 80, 250), which would be more suitable for my use?

Ryanr1987 · 24 Apr 2014 at 11:23

The D2000 is very lush, musical and balanced while the DT770 is more syrpy in sound with a touch more brightness. The DT770 is not as superior but still excellent.

The X1 on paper should have been great but I wasn't that keen. The D2000 was the better headphone in all areas minus air and stage. You may like the X1 it seems popular on here but after having over 40 headphones in my house they didn't have a spot.

The DT990 is basically an open DT770 with much more air and improved refinement by a tiny bit. It's pretty much open vs closed and if I had to choose one I'd pick the 770 for the isolation factor.

The 880 is a different flavor. It's balancee, airy and a more analytical headphone. In terms of price what ever sales more will get a bump in price. The 770 is such a bargain they can pretty much go up to £150 if they want.

The 880 price is because they are more reference level. I personally think they are not worth it but I'm not a fan of the signature.

Don't worry too much about ohms. The whole line is pretty sensitive so all can be driven without much power.

On a suitable amp they all sounded the same apart from the 32ohm. It has fake leather pads and this seems to make the sound a tad bit darker.

If you just want to plug in and play get the 32. If you have a basic amp go 80. For home use go 250..That's the idea behind these three.

If you liked the D2000 sound look into the D600 it's 180 and excellent for the price.

Marine-RX179 · 24 Apr 2014 at 12:12

I think I would most likely be only using the headphone at home rather than taking it out to use. So it would probably be just for games and movies on my PC and games on my PS Vita.

In terms of closed vs open (DT770 vs DT990 for example), which would provide a bigger sound stage (which is better for gaming if I'm not mistaken)? If I want a more immerse gaming experience, which would be better if sound leaking is not an issue?

Ryanr1987 · 24 Apr 2014 at 14:15

Between them I would pick the 990. The soundstage is larger and more airy. Immersion, both are similar with a slight edge going to the 770. I find the 770 a bit more accurate for positional audio.

You can't go wrong with either but before checking them out see if you can get the MA900.

Marine-RX179 · 24 Apr 2014 at 14:45

Ryanr1987 said:
You can't go wrong with either but before checking them out see if you can get the MA900.

Is that the Sony MDR-MA900? That's better than the DT770/DT990?

Also why is it so overpriced in the UK comparing to US/Japan?

rids57 · 24 Apr 2014 at 14:53

I use the DT990 pro's (250ohm) for everything, wide sound stage, plenty of bass and more than enough detail for my ears. The 250ohm version does take some driving though, I started out with a Soundblaster Z and it struggled when I pushed the volume. They sound really good with the STX though and I never need to push the volume above 50% (usually lower) for music, so adding an O2 oe E17 amp after the DX would be ideal.

Marine-RX179 · 24 Apr 2014 at 15:12

rids57 said:
I use the DT990 pro's (250ohm) for everything, wide sound stage, plenty of bass and more than enough detail for my ears. The 250ohm version does take some driving though, I started out with a Soundblaster Z and it struggled when I pushed the volume. They sound really good with the STX though and I never need to push the volume above 50% (usually lower) for music, so adding an O2 oe E17 amp after the DX would be ideal.

That is actually what I'm considering at the moment- the DT990 Pro (250ohm) plus a E17 amp.

However I am curious about the MA900 Ryanr mentioned above.

Ryanr1987 · 24 Apr 2014 at 15:18

Marine-RX179 said:
Is that the Sony MDR-MA900? That's better than the DT770/DT990?

Also why is it so overpriced in the UK comparing to US/Japan?

That's the one, better? when in comes to mid-fi one isn't really better just a different flavour. I would say for your needs the MA900 would be more suitable. They are easy to drive, have one of the widest soundstages and they have a really nice warm midrange which the Beyer's lack in comparison.

They have a slightly boosted bass that doesn't overpower anything so if there's an explosion, you will hear it.

Since the MA900 is discontinued the price is getting silly. Some places sale it for £130. There is one on headfi for £110 which is a good price.

If you can't find an MA900 for a suitable price the your original choices are still excellent.

Marine-RX179 · 24 Apr 2014 at 17:58

Ryanr1987 said:
That's the one, better? when in comes to mid-fi one isn't really better just a different flavour. I would say for your needs the MA900 would be more suitable. They are easy to drive, have one of the widest soundstages and they have a really nice warm midrange which the Beyer's lack in comparison.

They have a slightly boosted bass that doesn't overpower anything so if there's an explosion, you will hear it.

Since the MA900 is discontinued the price is getting silly. Some places sale it for £130. There is one on headfi for £110 which is a good price.

If you can't find an MA900 for a suitable price the your original choices are still excellent.

Did more reading around about the MA900. While the soundstage seem to be unmatched for due to its enormous 70mm driver, but it seem to be lacking in the bass department even for people that are not particularly a basshead.

I don't considering myself a basshead neither, but certainly won't like the bass being too underwhelmed as well. So I guess it's either a DT990 or may be 2nd hand D2000 or X1 plus a amp such as the Fiio E17 if I don't want to spend much more than total of around £200?

By the way while I think the D2000 is good for music, how would it do for games and movies, considering it is closed?

Also what other AMP with DAC alternative I could consider to the Fiio E17? Or is that simply the best choice? And is there such a thing as pairing the right amps with the right cans?

Ryanr1987 · 24 Apr 2014 at 19:05

The MA900 are anything but Bass light. The only people I can imagine that call it bass light are used to poor quality loose bass.

Half of my headphones could be considered bass head level.

The D2000 are fantastic for gaming. As a general rule
Balanced, warm, full mids and bass with a good soundstage usually make good gaming sets.

In terms of paring yes, many amps have a different sound. I tend to stay with Fiio because they are great for the price. They are warm and balanced which is ideal. The Fiio E12 is amazing, It powers anything I throw at it including £1000 less efficient phones.

Whats the absloute most you are willing to spend for the total set up?

Marine-RX179 · 24 Apr 2014 at 19:18

Ryanr1987 said:
The MA900 are anything but Bass light. The only people I can imagine that call it bass light are used to poor quality loose bass.

Half of my headphones could be considered bass head level.

The D2000 are fantastic for gaming. As a general rule
Balanced, warm, full mids and bass with a good soundstage usually make good gaming sets.

In terms of paring yes, many amps have a different sound. I tend to stay with Fiio because they are great for the price. They are warm and balanced which is ideal. The Fiio E12 is amazing, It powers anything I throw at it including £1000 less efficient phones.

Whats the absloute most you are willing to spend for the total set up?

As mentioned in the previous post...ideally not more than around £200 for the headphone plus amp. So I guess around £130-£150 for the headphone and the rest and may be a little extra on the amp...or would I be better to get a headphone at around £180-£200 ish without amp comparing to say...a DT770/DT990 with a amp?

Also, what's the main difference (function and performance wise) between the the Fiio E12 and the Fiio E17 that people keep recommending at this part of the forum?

As for the Sony MA900, let say the bass is capable and isn't and issue, I still have some concern toward the thin headband and think it might break if no careful; together with the fact it's difficult to find a new pair at reasonable price in UK, I am current more swayed toward the DT770/DT990, as its much seem far more durable (plus with the option to replace the earcups in the future if necessary).

rids57 · 24 Apr 2014 at 19:46

DT 770 & 990 are built like tanks, are obscenely comfortable and the pads are easily replaceable.
The E12 is a headphone amp, so you'd plug that into the line out from the D2, which would give you access to the positional audio processing of the sound card.
The E17 is a DAC & Amp and can connect via USB, optical/SPDIF or you can just use the AMP and connect via 3.5mm to the D2. When used via USB it will bypass the D2 completely, so you won't get any positional audio processing from the sound card. If you connect to the D2 via optical, you get positional audio processing from the sound card and the E17 converts the result into audio. You can also bypass the DAC altogether and just use it as an amp by connecting to the D2 via 3.5mm AUX socket.

Ryanr1987 · 24 Apr 2014 at 19:53

It depends on the Headphone. For example If you can find the AKG K267 for that price i'd go for that over any headphone mentioned and no amp needed.

It's all preference and you can always get an amp at a later date. The K267 is at the top of midfi so you will have less urge to upgrade anytime soon.

I purchased the Fiio E5 years a go for like £20 and that can run a suprising huge portion of midfi phones.

For some reason in this hobby people have had the need for a more expensive amp drilled ino their head and it's really not needed.

Here's an example of something on a budget that sounds pretty good.

DT770/990 with fiio e6 =£150

The E12 is much more powerful and will help with future Upgrades, both sound similar.

I know all these headphones are confusing, it's not easy picking one because there are so many flavours. I like to try introduce different options instead of just recommending the flavors of the month.

Marine-RX179 · 24 Apr 2014 at 20:12

So in terms of amp, for now I guess I should just spend £20 for the E06 rather than dropping £100 on the E17 for the sake of future-proofing with the DAC? I guess I could hope than when/if I do get a PS4 in the future, the E17 would probably come down in price by another £20 and then I could just get one then

Ryanr1987 · 24 Apr 2014 at 20:50

When you get a PS4 just buy the mixamp so you can game in surround sound. It powers pretty much anything. I only use my amps for music and the mixamp when I game.

Here's my PS4 set up

Mixamp + Optical cable + Mini USB + AKG Q701.

spacedskunk · 24 Apr 2014 at 21:31

Ryanr1987 said:
Buy a good, efficient headphone.

K267 used
ATH A900x
Mad Dog used local.
Q701
DT770
D600 or D2000 used
HM5 with Alpha pads
K550
Pro 750 used
MA900 used

All have medium to large stages, are not hard to drive although the Q701 and 702 wlll are less sensitive, they can be driven for quite cheap but look into the others first.

I'd personally not get the K701/Q701s if you don't have an amp, I own these headphones and seriously they are harder to drive than the ohm rating makes out, volume through a standard unamped headphone jack will be dire; K550s are a better shout - I am a huge AKG fan though for just quality products without breaking the bank.