!MUSLIM SAMWICH ARMYGEDDON!

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jh30uk said:
@ Craterloads, You assume all wrong.

They are stunned not left to die slowly with a throat cut due to religion.

Also I would not have posted the video link like that, keep it a url as some may not ant to see that still.

@ Craterloads, If you want to have a go at others and be taken even half seriously then learn to put together a non wall of text post with basic English skills with punctuation etc.
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And when an animal has its throat cut it loses consciousness. Of coarse you can point to episodes where that doesn't happen if something is done wrong but then I could point to episodes where stunning fails.

How high and mighty of you sir, on my mob, but never mind you have resorted to the grammar thingy. How about you pick out some spelling mistakes?
 
Craterloads said:
Not sure how serious I would take a video with the poster stating

"Boycott all Halal Restaurants Australia Wide !"

Funny how we only see one stunning in comparison!

snip

Here some traditional UK slaughter, so much better right?


Anyhow I watched the video well the first half of it, as im not too fond in watching animal slaughter.

First the animals appear to die almost instantly, perfect example at 2.14 mins, and lose consciousness. Now it appears the "barbaric" bit you are playing at is the sight of blood :) There's going to be blood, when animals are killed regardless of method or process one way or another. There is nothing barbaric about it. Secondly some of the animals twitch, which I assume you also refer too, again this is perfectly normal muscle contractions.
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That in no way can be classified as "traditional UK slaughter". Kicking and beating animals is not acceptable in the uk and a lot of the world. Mistreatment of animals is illegal. I have seen how they kill animals and its not nice in any form, but the preferred method is to stun them and then kill them.

Just because halal meat is associated with islam does not guarantee that the animals are treated any better during their life. Just because animals are not killed in halal way does not mean they are necessarily treated badly during their life as a result.
 
ubersonic said:
but if both animals lived the same way and the only difference is the way they died then picking the one with the nicer death works better for me
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I see your angle. Given that Subway claim (in OP's link) to have stunned the meat before the throat-cutting (regardless of how this affects its halal status) you should be fine to eat at any Subway.
 
Halal does not allow stunning, if you read up on it they get past/round this by using lowered voltage stunner so its not stunned fully.

A bolt gun to head is used here and its dead as its cut.
 
Craterloads said:
And when an animal has its throat cut it loses consciousness.
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Yeah, eventually. It dies in abject terror and agony, and that can take a while, 30 seconds or more.

Why are you trying to defend a patently indefensible point ? Are you trolling or simply ignorant of the facts ?

I'm thinking the latter.
 
I would say that study is WRONG.

So you meant to say "in your opinion" which on this forum is not much as you are infamous in this section.
 
Yup - study would be wrong when it doesn't fit your bigoted opinion.

The scientific facts

A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.


The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.


The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.


Appearances can deceive

Not all is what it seems, then. Those who want to outlaw Islamic slaughter, arguing for a humane method of killing animals for food, are actually more concerned about the feelings of people than those of the animals on whose behalf they appear to speak. The stunning method makes mass butchery easier and looks more palatable for the consumer who can deceive himself that the animal did not feel any pain when he goes to buy his cleanly wrapped parcel of meat from the supermarket. Islamic slaughter, on the other hand, does not try to deny that meat consumption means that animals have to die, but is designed to ensure that their loss of life is achieved with a minimum amount of pain.
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I know the "western" way of slaughtering is not the most painless way to go for the animal..But still better than their way of just "slitting their throats". Yes I m aware that we stun them, but in my eyes they are still suffering, for what?

If they do not like it than, why do they go for the bacon or whatever..I know they are okay with fish.

If I was subway I would just tell them not to have it than, it is that simple.
 
Sliver said:
Yeah, eventually. It dies in abject terror and agony, and that can take a while, 30 seconds or more.

Why are you trying to defend a patently indefensible point ? Are you trolling or simply ignorant of the facts ?

I'm thinking the latter.
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Is unconscious as soon as blood starts leaving it's body, aka instantly. 30 seconds, I would suggest within 2-3 seconds.

I guess you only use facts that suit your agenda rather looking at facts from a broad source, as proven by you dismissing facts above.
 
Religious slaughter techniques practised by Jews and Muslims are cruel and should be ended, says a scientific assessment from the Government's animal welfare advisers.

The Farm Animal Welfare Council says that slitting the throats of the animals most commonly used for meat, chickens, without stunning, results in "significant pain and distress". The committee, which includes scientific, agricultural and veterinary experts, is calling for the Government to launch a debate with Muslim and Jewish communities to end the practice.
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Source ---> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ligious-slaughter-say-scientists-1712241.html
 
Craterloads said:
Is unconscious as soon as blood starts leaving it's body, aka instantly. 30 seconds, I would suggest within 2-3 seconds.

I guess you only use facts that suit your agenda rather looking at facts from a broad source, as proven by you dismissing facts above.
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2-3 seconds = Instantly

got it.
 
Craterloads said:
Is unconscious as soon as blood starts leaving it's body, aka instantly. 30 seconds, I would suggest within 2-3 seconds.
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I've seen a few videos online of Halal slaughter and I can assure you the animals are not unconscious in 2-3 seconds. They are moving around, gasping and making horrible distressing sounds for at least 30 seconds, sometimes longer.
 
Yea you can pretty much ignore Craterloads he doesn't really 'get it' from an animal cruelty perspective nor has he referenced the dire social implications of islam in a non discriminatory society.
 
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