Vegetarianism: what if we didn't eat meat

Yes I will as there really isn't unless you can show it to me.
Clinical trials on diet are shockingly small. Almost everything is meta.
The few that aren't are so badly designed they mean nothing. To the point they don't control the meat. Fresh veg is pretty much fresh veg. Meat is not just neat there is such a wide range . Let alone oils and fats used to cook.

I spent months going through publications looking at such studies. And eventually gave up as it really is pointless atm. To many influences by both sides and far to many poor studies.

I liked the clinical studies that do HFHP vs HCLF. Yet have zero controls in place fir the quality if the meats, oils etc. Yet if you look at the majority of HFHp diets they have large resrmtrictions on what else can be eaten, let alone type of meat.


Good luck with mecury poisoning. Oh wait something else they had to do a u-turn on.

If I ever became a billion air. I would create a diet clinic facility. As our knowledge in the areas is less than basic.

So what in the face of such little real knowledge. Imo the best thing people can do I eat fresh food and make everything yourself and whilst you are making it avoid man made fats and replace with the old fashioned fats that went out of fashion due to bad science. If people did that most people would be eating far better than they are now.
 
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I'm guessing you eat a LOT of meat?
The effort and determination to not accept the over-whelming scientific evidence clearly suggests to me that you're in denial ;-)

Please post some links to peer reviewed research that refutes the papers and research I have posted.

I have backed up my position with scientific evidence and research, you have backed up your position with nothing but hot air and denial!!

You know you have little to no argument when you attack the research/evidence rather than produce your own that refutes it.
 
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Erm. No. In comparison to meat, veg/protein source alternatives are incredibly cheap.

The sainsbury's love soya mince costs £1.50 for 454g.

500g of beef mince, 10% fat is £3.50

The fat in the beef is high in saturated. The fat in the soya is mono/poly.

It is literally cheaper and healthier. I don't think meat eaters realise quite how much the 'meat' component of their meal bumps up its price. Vegetarians actually eat very cheaply ;)

Relative to ready meals and junk food I'm talking...;)

It's the reason many students have such bad diets. Junk food and cheap £1 ready meals are a lot cheaper than buying fresh food. Even things like Spag Bol can be more expensive than a couple of cheap ready meals.

EDIT: Oh, and it's generally considered that its the processed sugars in much of the food we now eat that is the cause of most of the Obesity we see now, not meat.
 
Ignorant dribble!
Plant based diets are the healthiest, I suggest you look at the evidence and studies done before making such silly incorrect comments.

but these studies focus on people who take great care with their diet to make sure they meet their nutritional needs.

do you think the average doley will make sure they get the full varied diet a veterinarian needs if there was no meat or would we see a dramatic increase in certain deficiencies.
 
I'd be vegetarian if I wasn't so lazy. Not for animal welfare issues but for ecological issues.

Farmed meat takes an enormous amount of resources for what you get in return and too much natural wilderness is destroyed all over the world for it, which harms global ecosystems and thus ourselves.

If it were up to me, no animals would be bred purely for meat production, all domestic meat would come from animals that have multiple uses besides meat and all other meat would be from sustainable hunting.

We simply don't need meat in the quantities we currently consume.

I agree. My gf has just turned veggie simply because she doesn't like the thought of eating animals. However, it's made me think about the meat I consume and as a result my diet is more balanced. Now I eat meat much more rarely for environmental reasons and consider it a 'treat' when I do, which is how I think it should be.
 
Red meat and especially processed meat (burgers, bacon, sausage...etc) is very unhealthy and if research from some of the most experienced and respected scientists and polling data from over half a million people can't convince you then nothing will.

Good luck! Personally I'm gonna listen to the experts and respect the scientific findings, plant based diet for me with seafood :-)
 
Despite showing nothing off the sort in your post.

Can you really not see how meta data is flawed? See how you've ignored the switch on cholesterol and more recently saturated fat.

And these clinical trials you speak off. Can we have some links to the published reports please.

Just like so many people before you, who helped get us into such a state. You are not respecting the scientific method. And taking it at face value, with out investigating it further.

Lol you really think half a million people recorded exactly what they ate and where it came from? Si the scientists could found out how it was made, what the ingredients where etc? Off course bit hence your post, no rebuttal at all.
 
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Vegetarianism is fine so long as you're getting your nutrients purely from whole, unprocessed vegetables, not that processed grain crap. It's the main cause of people getting fat and having all these digestion issues.

Our bodies are perfectly adapted for meat consumption and we get a ****load more nutrients from it. Vegetable consumption is primarily for cleansing our bodies, not nutrients.

Yes, excessive meat consumption will invariably lead to a shorter lifespan, but so long as you eat moderately, relative your energy expenditure and eat a good amount of vegetables, you will live a perfectly strong and reasonably long life. Remember, we aren't meant to live that long anyway.
 
Red meat and especially processed meat (burgers, bacon, sausage...etc) is very unhealthy

I don't question that red meat etc might have negative health effects compared to diets without those foods, however "very" unhealthy I disagree with.

Eat everything in moderation, live an active lifestyle, and the difference will be negligible.
 
Well the vast majority of animals farmed in this country are intensively reared indoors.

We'd still have plenty of dairy farms and cows for leather, and chickens for eggs, sheep for wool.

I don't know, I reckon I could be a pescatarian easily but to live without fish would be a challenge for me.
 
Ignorant dribble!

Plant based diets are the healthiest, I suggest you look at the evidence and studies done before making such silly incorrect comments.

The only thing I notice develop from a vegetarian diet are deficiencies, bad relationship with food and a increased risk of birth defects

B12 deficiencies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667752
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23859997

Amino acid deficiencies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24490473
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167687

Hyperhomocystinemia & hypermethylation during pregnancy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24397861

Zinc deficiencies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24231022

Deficiencies in children:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23712019
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22006487

Decreased omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin B12 , selenium and zinc in young women:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23495729

Subacute Combined Degeneration of the Spinal Cord:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23607009

Lower immunoglobulin levels (antibodies) in children:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23349364

Birth defects:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21664980
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...he-risk-of-birth-defects-scientists-warn.html
 
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The only thing I notice develop from a vegetarian diet are deficiencies, bad relationship with food and a increased risk of birth defects

B12 deficiencies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667752
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23859997

Amino acid deficiencies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24490473
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167687

Hyperhomocystinemia & hypermethylation during pregnancy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24397861

Zinc deficiencies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24231022

Deficiencies in children:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23712019
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22006487

Decreased omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin B12 , selenium and zinc in young women:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23495729

Subacute Combined Degeneration of the Spinal Cord:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23607009

Lower immunoglobulin levels (antibodies) in children:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23349364

Birth defects:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21664980
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...he-risk-of-birth-defects-scientists-warn.html
All of which can be countered by eating a well balanced mix of plant based & nutritionally fortified foods.

The poorly diet concious meat eater is likely to be obese, have high cholesterol, lacking in fibre & nutritionally malnourished - just as the vegans or vegetarians who have a poor diet.

Let's not forget the average persons diet is terrible regardless as to if they eat meat or not.

A combination diet of nuts, vegetables, beans & legumes, fruit, oils & a daily fortified vegan shake provides a comprehensive mix of all your nutritional needs.

Vegan amino acid sources.
Grains
Nuts and seeds
Soy
Beans and legumes
(blended shakes)

Vegan b12.
Sunflower spread.
Marmite.
Yeast extracts.
Soya.
(vegan blend shake)

Vegan Zinc.
Tofu.
Beans.
Nuts & seeds.

Vegan omega 3.
Flak seeds.
Flak seed oils.
 
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No they compensated for some, they can not compensate for all, no where does it say they compensate for unhealthy diet down to that level of detail. This is the issue with meta research. Just because there's a correlation. Does not mean there's a causation. Such meta studies should be used to determine what to look at in the lab. Unlike what the media portrays them as, which is a done facts.

This, they give you the big, shocking numbers before adjusting, then say they adjusted, but don't give any stats around it.

What if the adjusted data means that healthy meat diets are only marginally worse than healthy veg ones? By not stating the actual difference, they can still say veg only is better.
 
All of which can be countered by eating a well balanced mix of plant based & nutritionally fortified foods.

The poorly diet concious meat eater is likely to be obese, have high cholesterol, lacking in fibre & nutritionally malnourished - just as the vegans or vegetarians who have a poor diet.

Let's not forget the average persons diet is terrible regardless as to if they eat meat or not.

A clever choice of words, but the correct term is 'omnivore' as the average person eats a balance of meats, organs, vegetables, fruits etc, nuts etc.

Another thing to consider, a poorly diet concious omnivore may come across issues with bad food choices, too many calories etc BUT a poorly diet concious vegetarian would be far worse off due to the avoidance of a food group that does offer important nutritional value especially in regards to B12, omega 3, fat soluble vitamins... and then there is phytic acid found in certain fibre which binds to minerals and glycoalkaloids, a known natural toxin found in certain vegetables.
 
2. More animals are killed in the creation of many vegetables than in the creation of meat. For example, a combine harvester kills countless mice, snakes, insects and small mammals, as it hacks through acres of wheat.

Never really considered that. Suppose it's true though.
 
Despite showing nothing off the sort in your post.

Can you really not see how meta data is flawed? See how you've ignored the switch on cholesterol and more recently saturated fat.

And these clinical trials you speak off. Can we have some links to the published reports please.

Just like so many people before you, who helped get us into such a state. You are not respecting the scientific method. And taking it at face value, with out investigating it further.

Lol you really think half a million people recorded exactly what they ate and where it came from? Si the scientists could found out how it was made, what the ingredients where etc? Off course bit hence your post, no rebuttal at all.

It all must be a conspiracy then, like global warming, the moon landing etc. :rolleyes:

http://www.livescience.com/43839-too-much-protein-help-cancers-grow.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-05/low-carb-diet-may-shorten-your-life-study-finds/5299284

How do you explain this? And before you say meat is only harmful when the diet lacks moderation, answer why vegetables aren't harmful, despite that they are not eaten in moderation by vegetarians.
 
The number of cattle will decrease until they become either used solely for dairy, or until they become "wild" animals and just roam around doing their thing being animals, whilst (non-human) predators hunt them.

We don't need to eat meat, but we are designed to be able to. So people have a choice. However it is easier to get your nutrition with meat and fish than without - however the "good" vegetarians learn a lot about their diet and exploit/maximise the limits of their food choices.

When you start to get to Veganism is when it really starts to task your creativity for creating food with lots of nutrition.

Maybe it's because I'm a glutton, lazy, or rich enough to be able to afford it, but I wouldn't be happy to forego meat every day. I don't mind the odd day of meat-free eating, but couldn't do it for life. I also enjoy my fish far too much. Also I'm a bit of a nutrition bore, and enjoy giving my body the nutrition it needs, which means that whilst it would be more difficult (effort wise) as a vegetarian I could do it - but I wouldn't enjoy it as much.
 
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