Motorola Moto E tipped for May release to replace Moto G(worse than Moto G!!)

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Oh please, Nokia was the most successful mobile phone manufacturer for years mainly due to their low margin high volume value phones. The MotoE is £89 at launch within a few weeks it will be in the £70s in a month or two it will be seen at £60ish.

Google is a software company which is why they sold Lenovo after turning the company round, but they were always setting up Moto to turn a profit as a hardware company... it wasnt about Google at all, they were setting up the company for sale.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-...iness-but-keeping-some-patents-214150173.html

Google made a $4billion loss on Motorola.

That would leave the company with a still significant patent stash and a net outlay, after all the wheeling and dealing, of about $4 billion. Of course, Google also reported operating losses for Motorola as its owner, including $645 million in the first nine months of 2013 and $1.1 billion in 2012. A portion of the losses consisted of non-cash charges for stock-based compensation and other items.

Actually more.

Hence,Lenovo would want to improve margins.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I can't see motorola doing that lol!

by replace they clearly mean make it the CHEAPEST motorola on sale, doesn't mean there will be no moto G 2 or w/e they're going to call it, that will be in a higher(£100-£120) segment like moto G is now.

they probably want to fill the £40-£70 quid bit with the moto E which will be the new BUDGET motorola.

if that makes sense of course, stop crying lol.

^^

It seems the onboard storage of the Moto G 3G is an eMMC card which is sealed off:

http://www.slashgear.com/moto-g-microsd-expansion-not-so-fast-27310163/

So the microSD card reader is already onboard.

It would not even surprise me if the current 3G Moto G supports LTE,but they just disabled it as the Snapdragon 400 does support it.

So,they increase the price massively,all for the cost of probably dumping some cheap NAND onboard.

It also means the Alcatel One Touch Idol S which many EE shops sells for around £100,which has both 4G and a microSD card slot,will probably rise in price. EE dropped the price to match the Moto G 3G 8GB.



Which still makes it around around 25% to 30% more expensive as the Moto G is easy to get for around £90.

Look at the teardown - the microSD card slot is already there. They only need a few GB of cheap NAND to house the OS now and the traces are already there on the PCB.

Looks like I was right,though. Its £80 to £90 at many retailers now.

The Moto G will now be more expensive and pushed closer to £150.

Your £40 to £70 estimate is way off.

Stop crying.

wow a just released phone is 10 quid more expensive that I estimated? bohooooho..

£150 RRP doesn't mean it'll sell for £150 lol

Oh wait!!

You said the Moto E would be £40 to £70 at launch. It isn't. The 8GB Moto G is no more and the new Moto G is now in a higher price brand. The £90 to £100 8GB Moto G 3G was the most popular model,and now for that price you have a Moto E.

There is no incentive for Motorola to drop the price that low for the new Moto G,as before it was their cheapest phone. Now the Moto E replaces the Moto G at that price range.

The Moto G will be closer to £150. At £100 no one would buy an £80 to £90 Moto E,and Lenovo really does not want to make a $5 billion+ loss like Google did.

 

[grudas]

I can't believe you're soooo butthurt about this.. funny guy

 

[m4rk84]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-...iness-but-keeping-some-patents-214150173.html

Google made a $4billion loss on Motorola.

Of course they did, they bought Motorola for the patents knowing they were buying a company bleeding money. Do you really think Google didn't know exactly what they were buying?

It was always Googles plan to turn Motorola around into a company with a clear path to success then sell on. It's not in Googles interest to own an Android manufacturer it never was, Motorola was set up to show it could be successful again and then when it was clear Moto would be good again Lenovo bought them.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I can't believe that I am soooo butthurt about this.. funny guy I am

Its funny how you said £40 to £70,and are so butthurt when it came in at £80 to £90,ie,nearly the price of the Moto G 8GB,and then the Moto G is now increasing in price. You are repeatedly crying about it.

For what the microSD card slot which already exists,or the 4G functionality which probably already exists??

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I can't believe that I am soooo butthurt about this.. funny guy

Its funny how you said £40 to £70,and are so butthurt when it came in at £80 to £90,ie,nearly the price of the Moto G 8GB,and then the Moto G is now increasing in price.

For what the microSD card slot which already exists in the 3G version,or the 4G functionality which probably already exists??

I wonder if you work for one of the networks - maybe you are trying to justify the price increases,so you can get more commission??

Of course they did, they bought Motorola for the patents knowing they were buying a company bleeding money. Do you really think Google didn't know exactly what they were buying?

It was always Googles plan to turn Motorola around into a company with a clear path to success then sell on. It's not in Googles interest to own an Android manufacturer it never was, Motorola was set up to show it could be successful again and then when it was clear Moto would be good again Lenovo bought them.

It seems losses were over $1billion last year:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...ses-at-motorola-mobility-in-six-quarters.html

That means massive losses each year,Google owned Motorola.

It is unlikely Lenovo would want to sustain that level of losses.

Hence they will want to increase margins. Selling the same hardware for £125 to £150 will mean better margins for the Moto G and the Moto E at £80 to £90 will mean better margins than the Moto G 8GB at a similar price.

Anyone watching the financial on the Google and Lenovo side would see this happening a mile away.

 

[m4rk84]

You honestly don't think £14 for LTE is worth it? I very much doubt the MotoG was capable of LTE before, LTE phones have always had a markup, look back to when the Nexus4 got a LTE version in America it had a markup too.

I honestly don't even know what you are trying to argue anymore Cat.. the Moto E absolutely did not replace the Moto G and the Moto E G and X will continue into new versions for the foreseeable future on the exact same path as Google was already setting up.

It seems losses were over $1billion last year:

Of course it was... this was before Googles turnaround phones even came out? Most of last year was still Google getting their first Moto phones out the door of course it was still a year with a loss.

On Motorolas current path it will start making a profit again, why would Lenovo change that path. What go back to the old Moto which made a loss or perhaps change to Lenovos unsuccessful mobile division?

Seriously doubting your business sense right now, why would Lenovo buy Motorola if they didnt like it's business set-up? It would literally make no sense at all.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You honestly don't think £14 for LTE is worth it? I very much doubt the MotoG was capable of LTE before, LTE phones have always had a markup, look back to when the Nexus4 got a LTE version in America it had a markup too.

I honestly don't even know what you are trying to argue anymore Cat.. the Moto E absolutely did not replace the Moto G and the Moto E G and X will continue into new versions for the foreseeable future on the exact same path as Google was already setting up.

Look at the hardware. I posted pictures which it seems none of you want to look at!

Motorola was quiet about what version of the SnapDragon 400 was used - it does have a LTE enable version with exactly the same specs as what you see in the Moto G. The microSD card slot is already there. They just re-enabled the locked out features,put a new sticker on the phone and bumped the price up. How are people so gullible to this I don't know?

Its the same model with a markup. There is not going to be another £90 to £100 Moto G and people can deflect all they want,as there is ONLY ONE version of the new Moto G.

There is no incentive for Motorola to drop the price of the 4G one so low now. The Alcatel One Touch Idol S is the only competitor and only some EE stores have it at £100.

Even at £125 to £150 there is not much competition from anything apart from the Alcatel,so ultimately there is NO price pressure for Lenovo.

The Moto E is now the what the 8GB Moto G was,at the £100 and lower price point.

Of course it was... this was before Googles turnaround phones even came out? Most of last year was still Google getting their first Moto phones out the door of course it was still a year with a loss.

On Motorolas current path it will start making a profit again, why would Lenovo change that path. What go back to the old Moto which made a loss or perhaps change to Lenovos unsuccessful mobile division?

Seriously doubting your business sense right now, why would Lenovo buy Motorola if they didnt like it's business set-up? It would literally make no sense at all.

I am seriously doubting yours too. Motorola never turned a profit at all in the last few years. You also don't seem to understand where Google makes its money from - software,ads and data. Google was making losses so that they could expand the amount of Motorola phones sold.You do realise R and D and advertising cost money too

Read this:

http://pocketnow.com/2013/12/06/moto-g-profit

Analysts said Google was making a 5% profit margin with the Moto G,and thats at RRP.

The Lenovo core business is hardware,and a 5% profit margin is nothing.

 

[grudas]

Its funny how you said £40 to £70,and are so butthurt when it came in at £80 to £90,ie,nearly the price of the Moto G 8GB,and then the Moto G is now increasing in price. You are repeatedly crying about it.

wut? I said motorola will release another phone in a different price segment? I said it might cost 40-70 quid, it's £80 quid.

where exactly am I crying? moto G RRP is £159 the new one is £150 what are you on about? where did I cry?

I couldn't care less about these phones as I have no interest in this segment.

 

[tom_e]

You just appear to be arguing to yourself right now.

 

[m4rk84]

It's NOT the same model with a markup. For £14 you get LTE it's absolutely worth it. Who cares if the SD slot was already there.

 

[m4rk84]

Cat on one hand you say Google was just interested in pushing out Google to as many people as possible and not interested in making Motorola profitable at all. On the other hand you say the MotoG always had LTE but was disabled.

The thing is these two statement contradict, Google owned Motorola released the Moto G, if what your saying were true there would be absolutely no reason for Google to disable the LTE if it was already there, afterall it would be an extra feature for no cost and would surely ramp sales and Android devices.

It's very clear the original MotoG was NOT capable of LTE in my eyes. Remember it's not just about the chip being capable of LTE it also needs to have an LTE enabled aerial.

 

[kona786]

And why shouldn't Moto make some profit - no other manufacturer is improving the quality at the low end like Moto.

CAT - You should take your energy at place it at the other OEM's for dishing up turd at this price point.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Of course it was... this was before Googles turnaround phones even came out? Most of last year was still Google getting their first Moto phones out the door of course it was still a year with a loss.

On Motorolas current path it will start making a profit again, why would Lenovo change that path. What go back to the old Moto which made a loss or perhaps change to Lenovos unsuccessful mobile division?

Seriously doubting your business sense right now, why would Lenovo buy Motorola if they didnt like it's business set-up? It would literally make no sense at all.

Motorola never turned a profit at all in the last few years. You also don't seem to realise where Google makes its money from - software,ads and data. Google was making losses so that they could expand the amount of Motorola phones sold.You do realise R and D and advertising cost money too.

Read this:

http://pocketnow.com/2013/12/06/moto-g-profit

Analysts said Google was making a 5% profit margin with the Moto G,and thats at RRP.

The Lenovo core business is hardware,and a 5% profit margin is nothing.

It's NOT the same model with a markup. For £14 you get LTE it's absolutely worth it. Who cares if the SD slot was already there.

Cat on one hand you say Google was just interested in pushing out Google to as many people as possible and not interested in making Motorola profitable at all. On the other hand you say the MotoG always had LTE but was disabled.

The thing is these two statement contradict, Google owned Motorola released the Moto G, if what your saying were true there would be absolutely no reason for Google to disable the LTE if it was already there, afterall it would be an extra feature for no cost and would surely ramp sales and Android devices.

It's very clear the original MotoG was NOT capable of LTE in my eyes.

Not really,its really quite common. I have had various other phones for example,where the PCBs are identical between versions. They just enable more functionality,so people will upgrade quicker.

You really need to look at more teardowns of phones.

If you want I can list you some examples,from teardowns. It was done as far back as the MDA compacts were made.

The same goes with things like compacts. They release a new version,with fused off features enabled. Seen it on some compacts I owned too.

What you forget,there was no phone with comparable specs at the time and the Alcatel is only know starting to enter retail in reasonable amounts.

So a "new" model is then released with improved functionality - microSD card slot and 4G LTE,and a £25 to £50 markup.

Now they also have a new cheaper model to bulk up the £80 to £100 end.

They have no need to sell a £90 Moto G now.

The Moto E is still better specced than 99% of the competition at under £100 too.

And why shouldn't Moto make some profit - no other manufacturer is improving the quality at the low end like Moto.

CAT - You should take your energy at place it at the other OEM's for dishing up turd at this price point.

Not saying they should not - I am a Motorola fan,but it does change the fact the £90 Moto G phones will probably not last once it is made EOL and replaced.

Yep,you are correct the other phones are even worse than the Moto E TBF!

Of course Motorola might surprise me and keep the current one going in-between the Moto E and 4G Moto G.

 

[m4rk84]

But doing that doesn't align with your version of Googles Motorola who released the MotoG. Remember Google just want more android sales for as slim margins as possible... absolutely no reason for them to disable LTE for no reason.

Also I have looked at teardowns quite a few times, there was much fanfair because the Nexus4 had an LTE enabled chip... after much hacking it turned out the LTE could only be used on one network in Canada and with very poor signal, because the aerial was no good for most LTE bands.

IF the MotoG was indeed LTE capable hackers would have found a way to enable it by now.

Oh and of course Moto never made a profit in the past few years.. it was still in a process of being turned around by Google... however with Motorolas new strategy it is very clear they are on the right path. That is why Lenovo swooped in very quickly to buy. Also you clearly don't understand much about business because your on about margins without even mentioning volume. There's potential for HUGE profits on even 1% margin if you sell enough volume. Profit margins are directly related to volume of sales you can't compare one without the other.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

But doing that doesn't align with your version of Googles Motorola who released the MotoG. Remember Google just want more android sales for as slim margins as possible... absolutely no reason for them to disable LTE for no reason.

Also I have looked at teardowns quite a few times, there was much fanfair because the Nexus4 had an LTE enabled chip... after much hacking it turned out the LTE could only be used on one network in Canada and with very poor signal, because the aerial was no good for most LTE bands.

IF the MotoG was indeed LTE capable hackers would have found a way to enable it by now.

Oh and of course Moto never made a profit in the past few years.. it was still in a process of being turned around by Google... however with Motorolas new strategy it is very clear they are on the right path. That is why Lenovo swooped in very quickly to buy. Also you clearly don't understand much about business because your on about margins without even mentioning volume. There's potential for HUGE profits on even 1% margin if you sell enough volume. Profit margins are directly related to volume of sales you can't compare one without the other.

It makes perfect sense,as they did not have the Moto E out at the time. Now the low end market which the Moto G 8GB served is now served by the Moto E. The Moto E is still better specced than the competition although quite poor when compared to the G.

People who want a more powerful phone will get the more expensive Moto G 4G,which has only one competitor with limited availability.

It also means,the phone can be sold for better margins.

This is what happens when you have no competition.

Plus again you have not as much knowledge about business as you say you do when Lenovo is a hardware company,and Google is not. Even with expanded volume,Motorola was making billions of dollars in losses. You fail to realise very narrow profit margins don't work when things like R and D,etc need to be factored in. Google was offsetting its losses with money gained from the software and data side. Lenovo does not have this.

Google bailed out of Motorola and Lenovo got the company cheaply with all the design teams intact,and probably longterm access to many patents.

They will try to decrease costs and increase RRP where possible.

Again,this can be done since the Moto E and Moto G have NO competition.

Its now Lenovo owned,and like I said Google's dabbling in the hardware business did not go down well with investors,even though it expanded their own vision of more units.

Look at how the Nexus brand is being shelved now? Google was subsiding the Nexus 4 and 5. Now we will have non-subsidised Android Silver phones.

You need to look at the much bigger picture here.

Google is making a huge shift in its involvement with hardware,and I suspect its down to investor pressure.

There will be no Nexus 6 at this rate.

OTH,hopefully Oppo and OnePlus will keep the pressure on the £200 to £300 market with their releases,but its hard to say how much market penetration they will get in Europe as they are relative unknowns.

We need Huawei and the like to step up more at the other end.

 

[Number29]

Of course they did, they bought Motorola for the patents knowing they were buying a company bleeding money. Do you really think Google didn't know exactly what they were buying?

It was always Googles plan to turn Motorola around into a company with a clear path to success then sell on. It's not in Googles interest to own an Android manufacturer it never was, Motorola was set up to show it could be successful again and then when it was clear Moto would be good again Lenovo bought them.

Have Motorola done anything to prove that they can be successful again? As far as I know, Motorola's losses have actually got worse recently, not better.

Seriously doubting your business sense right now, why would Lenovo buy Motorola if they didnt like it's business set-up? It would literally make no sense at all.

I don't think Lenovo buying Motorola has anything to do with buying into a successful business strategy (Motorola's strategy clearly isn't successful), it probably has an awful lot more to do with buying a brand that is VERY well known in the West.

 

[m4rk84]

Have Motorola done anything to prove that they can be successful again? As far as I know, Motorola's losses have actually got worse recently, not better.

Well Google didn't really own Motorola for long after the X and G's release. The big year is 2014 to see how effective the turnaround was.

Things are starting to look good though:

http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_sold_65_million_devices_worldwide_in_q1_2014-news-8353.php

Turning around a company that was in as much trouble as Motorola were in is a long long process, which is still far from finished. Google steered them in the correct direction imo, Lenovo would be stupid to ditch the direction.

 

[kona786]

Have Motorola done anything to prove that they can be successful again? As far as I know, Motorola's losses have actually got worse recently, not better.

Stuff like this takes a lot of time. Moto are now showing that that they have the ability to make great products worth buying.

They were producing half arsed handest's a few years back. Now they are up there with the best - and if the new Moto X is brilliant, they'll be reaping the rewards slowly but surely. Cementing the low ends market and spreading the word is only a good thing...it's like laying a foundation for the future.

 

[Number29]

Stuff like this takes a lot of time. Moto are now showing that that they have the ability to make great products worth buying.

They were producing half arsed handest's a few years back. Now they are up there with the best - and if the new Moto X is brilliant, they'll be reaping the rewards slowly but surely. Cementing the low ends market and spreading the word is only a good thing...it's like laying a foundation for the future.

Making attractive products that people want to buy with next to no or zero profit is easy; you just shove all the best hardware into a device and sell it for the cost of the parts. However, that does not make you a successful company; in fact, I'd argue that makes you a very unsuccessful company as you are failing in your primary objective; to make as much profit as possible.

I'm not sure if what Motorola is doing will actually secure their future in the long term. All that's happening is that they're cheapening their brand; people will come to expect Motorola phones to cost around £100/whatever, and won't be prepared to spring for the more expensive devices that actually make them a healthly profit. Sadly, it's probably too late for Motorola as Apple have long since secured their position as the de-facto gold standard in smartphones (why spend £500 on a Motorola when you can get an iPhone type mentality etc).