Kinectless Xbox One announcement today.

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Why on earth people keep on saying the Xbox One is underpowered when its not??!?!?!

They mean relative to PS4, ignoring the DDR3/ESRAM v GDDR5 argument the GPU's are significantly different, XBO has a slightly cut down Radeon 7790, the PS4 a slightly cut down Radeon 7870.

A Kinectless Xbox One should be significantly cheaper than PS4 but I don't think Microsoft want to give the game away by pricing it too cheaply, because so far they've managed to pull the wool over most peoples eyes.
 
It is rather hilarious, make deals so the Xbox sells at all, then release a new version without Kinect for higher than the lowest prices the Kinect + game versions have recently sold at.... MS really can be completely retarded.

You've said it yourself, it was a promotion intended to shift some consoles when Titanfall launched. The price has since gone back up so I'm not sure why it's a surprise to anyone that MS aren't planning to just give the non-Kinect consoles away.
 
You've said it yourself, it was a promotion intended to shift some consoles when Titanfall launched. The price has since gone back up so I'm not sure why it's a surprise to anyone that MS aren't planning to just give the non-Kinect consoles away.

yeah ive noticed the price of the titanfall bundle is back at £399.99 almost everywhere again. still think the full package will be under the £300 mark come xmas rush this year or at worst £350 with 2 or 3 games
 
They mean relative to PS4, ignoring the DDR3/ESRAM v GDDR5 argument the GPU's are significantly different, XBO has a slightly cut down Radeon 7790, the PS4 a slightly cut down Radeon 7870.

A Kinectless Xbox One should be significantly cheaper than PS4 but I don't think Microsoft want to give the game away by pricing it too cheaply, because so far they've managed to pull the wool over most peoples eyes.

I know but its still rubbish, too many people are reading stories and not physically playing the games on both platforms to see for themselves and are following what the media is telling them (no suprise really for most fanboys)

If you go into a shop and play a multiplatform game on both consoles you are not going to noticed a difference. Unless someone points it out to you. The differences is not like night and day between both consoles graphics wise.

Forget all this 1080/720 screen resolution nonsense as most console gamers sit so far back from the TV they can't tell what resolution the game is running. That said, I wonder how many gamers out there on PS4s and Xbox Ones even bother try changing their screen resolution on their TV or console from default 720, I bet not many if their TV doesn't do it automatically.

PS3 was more powerful than the 360 but I don't remember reading 'oh the Xbox 360 is underpowered compared to the PS3'. Multiplatform games on either of them were the same, give or take a few. Which was down to developers bad programming, not hardware limitions. E.g. Bayonetta and Oblivion on the PS3.

On paper the Xbox One looks less powerful but it is on par with the PS4 because of the AMD architecture they are built on. Many developers have said this many times, especially Indi developers. Funny many major gaming websites don't mention this and you only get the full story from technical research or gaming podcasts.
 
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I know but its still rubbish, too many people are reading stories and not physically playing the games on both platforms to see for themselves and are following what the media is telling them (no suprise really for most fanboys)

If you go into a shop and play a multiplatform game on both consoles you are not going to noticed a difference. Unless someone points it out to you. The differences is not like night and day between both consoles graphics wise.

Forget all this 1080/720 screen resolution nonsense as most console gamers sit so far back from the TV they can't tell what resolution the game is running. That said, I wonder how many gamers out there on PS4s and Xbox Ones even bother try changing their screen resolution on their TV or console from default 720, I bet not many if their TV doesn't do it automatically.

PS3 was more powerful than the 360 but I don't remember reading 'oh the Xbox 360 is underpowered compared to the PS3'. Multiplatform games on either of them were the same, give or take a few. Which was down to developers bad programming, not hardware limitions. E.g. Bayonetta and Oblivion on the PS3.

On paper the Xbox One looks less powerful but it is on par with the PS4 because of the AMD architecture they are built on. Many developers have said this many times, especially Indi developers. Funny many major gaming websites don't mention this and you only get the full story from technical research or gaming podcasts.

i mentioned earlier i have the xbox one my son the ps4 and in ghosts and bf4 neither me, my son or any number of friends round can tell any major, or even minor dif between the 2 despite the sony console playing the games in 1080p/60fps.

my chair is also about 6-8ft away from a 52"tv so not sure if thats too far back to notice any dif in resolution either..
 
I know but its still rubbish, too many people are reading stories and not physically playing the games on both platforms to see for themselves and are following what the media is telling them (no suprise really for most fanboys)

If you go into a shop and play a multiplatform game on both consoles you are not going to noticed a difference. Unless someone points it out to you. The differences is not like night and day between both consoles graphics wise.

Forget all this 1080/720 screen resolution nonsense as most console gamers sit so far back from the TV they can't tell what resolution the game is running. That said, I wonder how many gamers out there on PS4s and Xbox Ones even bother try changing their screen resolution on their TV or console from default 720, I bet not many if their TV doesn't do it automatically.

PS3 was more powerful than the 360 but I don't remember reading 'oh the Xbox 360 is underpowered compared to the PS3'. Multiplatform games on either of them were the same, give or take a few. Which was down to developers bad programming, not hardware limitions. E.g. Bayonetta and Oblivion on the PS3.

On paper the Xbox One looks less powerful but it is on par with the PS4 because of the AMD architecture they are built on. Many developers have said this many times, especially Indi developers. Funny many major gaming websites don't mention this and you only get the full story from technical research or gaming podcasts.

You might have a point with resolutions, but framerate? I can certainly notice 30 vs 60 fps, especially considering I'm used to 120FPS.
 
Forget all this 1080/720 screen resolution nonsense as most console gamers sit so far back from the TV they can't tell what resolution the game is running. That said, I wonder how many gamers out there on PS4s and Xbox Ones even bother try changing their screen resolution on their TV or console from default 720, I bet not many if their TV doesn't do it automatically.

PS3 was more powerful than the 360 but I don't remember reading 'oh the Xbox 360 is underpowered compared to the PS3'. Multiplatform games on either of them were the same, give or take a few. Which was down to developers bad programming, not hardware limitions. E.g. Bayonetta and Oblivion on the PS3.

On paper the Xbox One looks less powerful but it is on par with the PS4 because of the AMD architecture they are built on. Many developers have said this many times, especially Indi developers. Funny many major gaming websites don't mention this and you only get the full story from technical research or gaming podcasts.

Okay, first of all resolution is noticeable, 720 vs 1080p is crazy obvious on y 50" screen somewhere like 2.5metres from the screen, VERY obvious. Ps4 will be far more likely to hit 60fps and stick there with the smallest amount of variation while a game designed to not drop much below 60fps on a PS4 level of hardware will likely maintain a lower fps rate and drop/vary frame rate far more significantly on the XO. higher fps and small variance = better experience.

There are differences now in games that aren't particularly optimised for the latest consoles, not in all games and often the difference is small. Console exclusives WILL show up the 50% shader advantage the PS4 has. There is more fundamental power, they will make games to use that power, this hasn't happened yet and won't happen realistically for another 6-12 months but will continue to improve over the next couple years after that. That is the same with every new generation of consoles.

Power wise, the 360/ps3 were pretty close in GPU power, they certainly weren't far enough away from each other that dev's targeted different level of effects and quality. The difference between ps4/XO is massive compared to the difference between the 360/ps3.

360 was the lead platform, it was easier to code for and out earlier. The Ps3 was complex to code for(mostly the CPU) and while the CPU was a pain to extract performance out of, once dev's did get to grips with it there wasn't also extra untapped GPU performance. By the time the PS3 was the "preferred" platform for dev's it was so late that it didn't matter, and there wasn't 50% more shader power to take advantage of a better cpu.

This gen Xbox is both more complex to code for, has worse tools and is significantly, massively slower on the GPU side. This means the PS4 is the lead platform, it's easier to code for, has better tools and at no stage will the XO make up this raw power difference. At best it can overcome the tools disadvantage and become less of a pain, it will never become better and will stay miles behind till the next gen. As more games target the PS4 in power level, there will be bigger differences in games, not smaller.


That there are differences now when most games are being re-released for the new consoles, or even new games whose main target is still the 360/PS3, is impressive and ominous. As more games come out purely for the next gen systems, and more exclusives come out, it's almost certain that the gaps will be bigger, the PS4 will be the "better" option in the majority of games.

The simple fact is, why buy the worse console, even if it's only every third game that runs at a higher frame rate or better resolution, why actively buy the worse console, that costs more, even the good deals lately have really just put it on par price wise, and those deals have gone. £350 for a kinectless XO or £350 for a faster PS4... at £250 a kinectless XO or £300 for a Kinect including XO is good competition, but same price why buy the console that has worse frame rate and resolution in enough games to make it clear which is more powerful.
 
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out of interest has MS actually given a reason for releasing a kinectless version

This month's NPD sales is rumoured to be below or around 100,000.

The thing is tanking hard at current price.

Anyone who can't see the difference between 1080p and 720p has their eyes painted on. Simple as that.
 
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Okay, first of all resolution is noticeable, 720 vs 1080p is crazy obvious on y 50" screen somewhere like 2.5metres from the screen, VERY obvious.

Disagree. I have a 50" Plasma and sit pretty much bang on 2.5m from it when watching films/playing games and yes while I don't deny there is a difference between 720p and 1080p there is not a 'crazy obvious' difference. To the point I will always try to get 1080p content but if I can find a 720p version only I won't exactly be pulling my hair out :p
 
The simple fact is, why buy the worse console, even if it's only every third game that runs at a higher frame rate or better resolution, why actively buy the worse console, that costs more, even the good deals lately have really just put it on par price wise, and those deals have gone. £350 for a kinectless XO or £350 for a faster PS4... at £250 a kinectless XO or £300 for a Kinect including XO is good competition, but same price why buy the console that has worse frame rate and resolution in enough games to make it clear which is more powerful.

The simple fact is I cant get the games I WANT TO PLAY on a ps4
 
Disagree. I have a 50" Plasma and sit pretty much bang on 2.5m from it when watching films/playing games and yes while I don't deny there is a difference between 720p and 1080p there is not a 'crazy obvious' difference. To the point I will always try to get 1080p content but if I can find a 720p version only I won't exactly be pulling my hair out :p

You are watching the wrong content then.
 
You are watching the wrong content then.

Hah! Keep telling yourself that! ;)

Like I said, yes there is a difference but I'm not enough of a pixel peeper for it to bother me to the point of ranting about it on the internet. Yes 1080p is delicious but 720p is by no means bad and still perfectly watchable.
 
I dont see how anybody can dispute the ps4 is more powerful than the xbox one

in virtually every multi platfrom release so far the ps4 is playing at higher resolutions and frame rate

and this is at the start of the develpment cycle

logic dictates that as developers learn the tips and tricks they utilise as the years go on..this gap wont close significantly..the bottom line is one has better hardware then the other..for the same price at the moment

the xbox one should be cheaper than the ps4 for what you are getting
 
Hah! Keep telling yourself that! ;)

Like I said, yes there is a difference but I'm not enough of a pixel peeper for it to bother me to the point of ranting about it on the internet. Yes 1080p is delicious but 720p is by no means bad and still perfectly watchable.

Don't forget this is a PC enthusiast forum - they get funny about these sorts of things.
 
Back on topic...

I have mixed feelings about this. Similarly to the decision to change the digital stuff previously announced it feels like they are making the decision in reaction to the angry internet most of whom don't own and xbox one. Although you can't argue with sales being low compared to the PS4 it felt like MS was breaking new ground and trying something new.

If it had been Apple then i can't help feeling it would have been celebrated as amazing innovation and sold like hot cakes.

I still think the Kinect has its place and i will find it useful going forward. It's just a shame it wont now get it's own features in the big games.
 
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