Woman facing death in Sudan for Apostasy

[zyzzyzus]

What, like the Catholic vs Protestant issue in Northern Ireland?

That isn't really about religion. It is about one side wanting a united Ireland and for the British to leave 'their country' and the other wanting to remain part of the UK. The Catholic v Protestant thing is just because the UK is Protestant and Ireland is Catholic. Catholics are often sympathetic to Ireland even when not Irish for example. The killing would still have happened without religion.
Edit:
I am against all religion though. But Islam currently does have a lot to answer for. I certainly would be interested in knowing the true views of Muslims as to things like apostasy and blasphemy.

Christianity has its nutters too but they are ostracised these days so we can clearly see they are few in number.

When Muslims start doing this too then they will be able to prove they are a peaceful religion.

 

[deuse]

So you only care if people are being put to death if it's by Muslims? I'm glad I don't see the world through that lens.

A women is being put to death for being MARRIED to a Christian is the most stupidest thing ever.
I support the death sentence for murders\rapists and pedos. And I support hard labour in jails.

 

[jumpy]

I am content that a 52% turnout in a shady election process, in a country that is 1.2% of the world population, does not represent the global majority of Muslims and therefore does not contradict my opinion that the majority of Muslims do not condone this sentencing in Sudan, yes.

Your opinion huh?

o·pin·ion
[uh-pin-yuhn]
noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.

Seeing as you are neither a judge or court (4), a professional (ie in the subject) (3), or giving evidence of character (5), then only 1 and 2 are applicable to your comments.


I'll be generous here and say that if these Sudanese don't support apostasy punishments, they certainly don't oppose them.
The same can be said of many islamic countries and their peoples - it might not be something they actively support, but they don't make a point of opposing it either.
Double standards aside, the result is the same in any case - death penalty's and barbaric behavior that rightly outrage any sane individual.

Seems like the only people who are officially decrying this ruling are western diplomats and human aid/rights charities.

Being a vocal apologist for such actions, bandying semantic debate and obfuscating the appalling fact that a woman is to be killed for little more than thinking differently, is repugnant at best.

 

[The Running Man]

How would I know? Have you written to your MP to ask him to raise the situation in Parliament? Has anyone in this thread who purports to care so much for the woman? Or is it just another convenient thread.

Well you are taking a stance that everyone here is muslim bashing.

They may be but given the situation some bashing is assuredly justified here. What I am asking is what is the Muslim community doing to ensure that it appears as a faith of freedom and peace and im asking how other non militant muslims are showing themselves to separate themselves from the militant ones and put pressure against them for the sake of humanity.

If they do not, do they deserve to receive some ire ?

muslims are happy enough to protest in London about the sale of alcohol but not for women's rights or for against an Islamic state.

btw anyone protesting over the stolen muslim girls yet? That trail seems to have gone mighty quiet.

 

[platypus]

Well you are taking a stance that everyone here is muslim bashing.

They may be but given the situation some bashing is assuredly justified here. What I am asking is what is the Muslim community doing to ensure that it appears as a faith of freedom and peace and im asking how other non militant muslims are showing themselves to separate themselves from the militant ones and put pressure against them for the sake of humanity.

If they do not, do they deserve to receive some ire ?

I'll repeat - have you written to your MP? Have you tried to take a stance to help this woman? If not should we not be "bashing" you for the double standards?

 

[ubersonic]

A women is being put to death for being MARRIED to a Christian is the most stupidest thing ever.
I support the death sentence for murders\rapists and pedos. And I support hard labour in jails.

No she is being whipped 100 times for adultery (marrying the Christian man) which is not something I approve of either, her death sentence is for apostasy (abandoning her Islamic faith and converting to Christianity, as under Sudanese law she inherits her fathers faith) which again is not something I approve of.

However to put any of the blame on Islam is just stupid, these are laws of man created by men and enforced by men, they have no base/founding in Islam, like I said before it's just human ego "my faith is better than yours" nonsense. This type of stuff was/is done by people of many faiths, to try and shift the blame onto the religion being misrepresented by these followers is missing the point, this isn't a religion issue it's a unjust legal issue.

 

[platypus]

8 months pregnant too, must be such a horrible stressful situation to be in .

 

[The Running Man]

I'll repeat - have you written to your MP? Have you tried to take a stance to help this woman? If not should we not be "bashing" you for the double standards?

Our pm has already expressed outrage and pushed back.

im wondering if any other Islamic states have done the same? They don't want 'western' pressure or influence so I can't tip their hand or get them to listen to me personally. It woukd have to come through the overwhelming support of the Muslim people. But as they mostly support the law it shows them in a barbaric light indeed and they seem comfortable in that place.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

New just in:

At least half the planet's population doesn't want "Western Democracy".

Film at 11.

 

[deuse]

However to put any of the blame on Islam is just stupid, these are laws of man created by men and enforced by men, they have no base/founding in Islam,

The quran was made up by man so the whole religion is flawed

like I said before it's just human ego "my faith is better than yours" nonsense. This type of stuff was/is done by people of many faiths, to try and shift the blame onto the religion being misrepresented by these followers is missing the point, this isn't a religion issue it's a unjust legal issue.

It's a legal issue based on religion. Just do away with religion.

 

[Gilly]

i was under the impression that in Islam, the religion is passed down the father's side. i.e. because her dad was a muslim, the courts consider her one too?

The apostasy charge is because she says she's not a muslim, because in the law's eyes she was born one.

Don't apply logic. This is a Muslim thread in GD, there's no place for it.

 

[dowie]

I'll repeat - have you written to your MP? Have you tried to take a stance to help this woman? If not should we not be "bashing" you for the double standards?

That makes very little sense... if you wrote to your MP about everything wrong in the world you'd be writing a lot of letters - the fact that you haven't doesn't prevent you from condemning or criticising various things that are wrong in the world.

A lot of the knee jerk 'omg Muslim bashing' 'typical UKIP types' 'nothing to do with Islam' posts are as bad as the one liners on the first page. There is a problem with Islam as practiced by many Muslims around the world, it's not just a small minority but so called 'extreme' views actually aren't particularly rare or even all that extreme given the numbers of Muslims holding them. This incident highlights that issue yet again... people trying to brush it away with ideas that anyone criticising is just a bigot aren't exactly adding much.
As for the idea that you should write to your mp if you're to have a legitimate opinion on this.. you could apply that flawed reasoning to any news story.

 

[LOAM]

Playing devils advocate, and probably quoting several GD members sentiment in the process, what is is to us how they run their own country?

If you don't live there, how is is it effecting you, if you've moved there, you did so knowing that's how its done, if you don't like it move somewhere else or integrate. If you are Sudanese, feel free to change it! *


* the same post in two threads, do I win a prize?

 

[Gilly]

Those saying British Muslims should speak out:

Do you judge British Christians for not demonstrating at home for every atrocity that is committed in the name of Christianity in Africa or South America?

 

[dowie]

Don't apply logic. This is a Muslim thread in GD, there's no place for it.

Yeah you should just post either 'Lol Islam' or 'omg bigots/Muslim bashing'

 

[Castiel]

When I wiki d it earlier it said that Islamic laws had been punishing apostasy since the middle ages and before.

Well it wouldn't have been before the Middle Ages as Islam did not exist prior to the Middle Ages. And I did not say Islam, but Sudan. And like in other religions which have apostasy doctrines, rarely is it seen after the Renaissance, until the fall of the Ottomans and the rise of Islamism in the late 20th Century that is.

And what you quoted uses the term apostasy, not as a legal punishment but illustrating the shift in Muslim attitudes after Mohammed's death, much like the schisms in Christianity at various times where followers either splintered or abandoned their religion.

in sudan someone was convicted of apostacy in 1985... so not sure if your numbers are right?

Mahmood Taha, the man executed on apostasy charges in 1985 was in fact an outspoken political opponent of the Islamist regime under Nimeiri, so again political ambitions hijack a religion to justify murdering a political critic.

In Sudan the current capital penalties were instituted in 1991. The sharia legal system in 1983. No one has been sentenced to death until this woman. The freedom of religion law passed in 2005. So all relatively recently. Sudan is also one of the most corrupt nations on the planet, ranking just two or three rungs from the bottom.

 

[deuse]

Those saying British Muslims should speak out:

Do you judge British Christians for not demonstrating at home for every atrocity that is committed in the name of Christianity in Africa or South America?

But they do. Use google dude. Oh and I don't believe In a god. That's for people with a Inferiority Complex ect.

 

[The Running Man]

Those saying British Muslims should speak out:

Do you judge British Christians for not demonstrating at home for every atrocity that is committed in the name of Christianity in Africa or South America?

Does the Pope not speak out?

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-speaks-to-tanzanias-bishops-on-evangelization

am particularly encouraged to know that Tanzania is committed to ensuring the freedom that followers of various religions enjoy to practice their faith. The ongoing protection and promotion of this fundamental human right strengthens society by enabling believers, in fidelity to the dictates of their conscience and in respect for the dignity and rights of all, to advance social unity, peace and the common good. I am grateful for your ongoing efforts to promote forgiveness, peace and dialogue as you shepherd your people in difficult situations of intolerance and, at times, of violence and persecution.

 

[Gilly]

But they do. Use google dude. Oh and I don't believe In a god. That's for people with a Inferiority Complex ect.

What do your beliefs have to do with anything?

I have never seen Christians march past my office or house window protesting at the actions of other Christians around the world.

Does the Pope not speak out?

Is the Pope British?

 

[Castiel]

Those saying British Muslims should speak out:

Do you judge British Christians for not demonstrating at home for every atrocity that is committed in the name of Christianity in Africa or South America?

Many prominent British Muslins do speak out against Sharia and Islamism. The One Law for All rally in London a few years ago had a wide range of Muslim leaders, writers and scholars speaking out against such things.

Problem is that it rarely gets reported as people generally are not interested, they are only interested in outrage and the tabloids in particular cater for that.