Poll: which party are you going to vote in up coming elections?

[v0n]

You are of course aware that you can travel to other countries in the world that aren't in the EU, have their own immigration policy, and you don't need a visa.

Right, so your presumption would be that in this new world order the French (now with their cute and cuddly National Front accent) will let Britons through whenever they want, wherever they want and for whatever reason they want because Brits are... em... special... better kind.. one that's always welcomed on the continent. With red carpet, greetings and glass of champaigne, perhaps.
Meanwhile British border control will interview all French visitors, check their CV and competences and only let them into Britain on case by case, point based skill verified basis, because "them be stealing Pret-A-Manger jewbs, yo". Some will be let through, others will be sent back because "we don't want your kind here". That about right? Or how does that dreamt up world work in UKIP voter universe?

Are you seriously saying travelling without queues is a good reason to not have border controls.

Freedom of movement is one of the best things that ever happened to European continent. To forfeit it just because of some weird xenophobic schizo paranoia, would be madness.

 

[aslco]

I think the Lib Dems blew themselves apart. As soon as they forgot who they were to form a coalition with the Tories at the last General Election they completely alienated anyone who saw them as reflecting their ideologies.

The cons media team have played it brilliantly. Given the AV referendum and in return coaxed Lib Dems into agreeing to the new Uni fees that then lost half their vote share (all young people)

The new uni scheme is actually nearer to the Lib Dem graduate tax that they've wanted. However, the Lib Dems simply haven't publicsed the work they've done well enough. I appreciate some people thought they were the refreshing left party, but they've actually done an OK job in a coallition and actually most of the unpopular policy is Con policy, not lib dem. However, cons have used it as a "not us its them *points*" strategy.

 

[Rosbif]

Shambles in Tower Hamlets holding everything up lol

 

[arknor]

v0n was clearly a child before the EU....

 

[Mr. Pickle]

That's the part I never understand. European migrants come and get work, rent living quarters, get a car, bring the family, it's all doable. But you look at them and go "this is the scum that overcrowds our towns and keep our poor people poor". How does that even pass through your head without making your angry at yourself and red out of shame.

If it is about jobs, then what jobs are the Europeans stealing from locals? Unless there are genuinely millions of 50something like deuce losing race to starbucks barista positions and missing seats on seasonal veg picker buses to foreigners, day after day, time and time again, getting hormonal about the whole "Europeans be stilling our low skilled jewbs" is just weird, if not plain stupid.

WTF wants the jobs on washing up duty in crap take away outfit other than Janek and Mario? How TF would a person born with command of English language and local address ever lose a low skill position to someone who just arrived on a bus from Poland and has Borat thumbs up for entire vocabulary? Unless they were absolutely hopeless at everything in their miserable worthless life?

So you are telling me that not only your locals are inept enough to keep losing job interviews to Borats and Cheeky Girls but you also need to vote in political power to close the gates to the country and barbwire cliffs of Dover for a generation or two, so your homies can finally manage to secure positions flipping burgers or painting fences? To quote my MTV channel - Are you for motherloving real bruv?

Wow you really are clueless

It's even been explained to your before what happens to price when you have a massive supply of something (labour) and little demand (small amount of jobs), and you still don't have the IQ to understand it

 

[Caged]

It's not as simple as that though. You're assumption is that if you limit the supply (labour) that the demand will stay exactly the same, when it's highly likely that by making the country not as appealing as it currently is to companies who wish to do trade with the EU that you lose jobs at the same time.

Shutting the doors won't make wages increase unless the government legislates to increase the minimum wage, which they could do independently of a change in EU membership.

We are competing in a global economy, companies are able to locate wherever works best for them. If a government tried to introduce a system of protecting British jobs by keeping other nationals out and raising wages then they'd just go somewhere else. Exiting the EU can't roll back globalisation.

 

[aslco]

Wow you really are clueless

It's even been explained to your before what happens to price when you have a massive supply of something (labour) and little demand (small amount of jobs), and you still don't have the IQ to understand it

In the EU or out doesn't change population density now. In Europe, there's still the same number of people / companies creating jobs for the same amount of overall workers. If you were in California / Texas would you vote for independence from the US because people were moving to your state and you somehow thought that the natural percentage of companies to people was changing miraculously...?

As much as people can work in the UK, others can take up offers elsewhere

"omg leave the EU then less people take err jerrbs and we can inflate the price of labour because we didn't want to adjust / strive for other markets via education or our own charisma"

 

[arknor]

It's not as simple as that though. You're assumption is that if you limit the supply (labour) that the demand will stay exactly the same, when it's highly likely that by making the country not as appealing as it currently is to companies who wish to do trade with the EU that you lose jobs at the same time.

Shutting the doors won't make wages increase unless the government legislates to increase the minimum wage, which they could do independently of a change in EU membership.

EU needs to trade with us as much as we do them so let's not pretend suddenly no one would do business with us.

RUSSIA ain't in the EU right? why are they buying russian gas then?

 

[Mr. Pickle]

Right, so your presumption would be that in this new world order the French (now with their cute and cuddly National Front accent) will let Britons through whenever they want, wherever they want and for whatever reason they want because Brits are... em... special... better kind.. one that's always welcomed on the continent. With red carpet, greetings and glass of champaigne, perhaps.
Meanwhile British border control will interview all French visitors, check their CV and competences and only let them into Britain on case by case, point based skill verified basis, because "them be stealing Pret-A-Manger jewbs, yo". Some will be let through, others will be sent back because "we don't want your kind here". That about right? Or how does that dreamt up world work in UKIP voter universe?

I'm not quite sure what to respond to this, as it seems you don't actually have anything remotely resembling a clue about what you are arguing.

Do you understand what a visa is? Do you grasp the concept that certain countries waiver the visa, so you have freedom to travel there, but their border isn't open to everyone - to get a job you have to apply for a work permit. New Zealand is one example. We can freely travel there, but we can't freely get a job

There is no reason that France run by the most nationalist party they can conjure up wouldn't have the same type of agreement with Germany or Britain or Holland... providing those countries hadn't turned themselves into 3rd world ****holes

 

[Caged]

EU needs to trade with us as much as we do them so let's not pretend suddenly no one would do business with us.

RUSSIA ain't in the EU right? why are they buying russian gas then?

If you're a US company and you wish to sell a product in Europe, would you put your European headquarters in a country which is a member of a political union allowing you to pull talent in from many different language areas without having to sponsor work visas, or would you put it in a country which is trying to distance itself from the area that you are trying to branch out in to, and which places heavy restrictions on recruiting people from outside its own borders?

There is no reason that France run by the most nationalist party they can conjure up wouldn't have the same type of agreement with Germany or Britain or Holland... providing those countries hadn't turned themselves into 3rd world ****holes

You mean like some sort of political union?

 

[Mr. Pickle]

It's not as simple as that though. You're assumption is that if you limit the supply (labour) that the demand will stay exactly the same, when it's highly likely that by making the country not as appealing as it currently is to companies who wish to do trade with the EU that you lose jobs at the same time.

Shutting the doors won't make wages increase unless the government legislates to increase the minimum wage, which they could do independently of a change in EU membership.

We are competing in a global economy, companies are able to locate wherever works best for them. If a government tried to introduce a system of protecting British jobs by keeping other nationals out and raising wages then they'd just go somewhere else. Exiting the EU can't roll back globalisation.

Name a company that will leave the UK if we left the EU.

You won't do it because you can't. And no, immigrants who come here to work as cleaners or pick fruit do not create any jobs, as racist as that makes me to point out that fact.

The laughable example of Ford that Clegg used actually recently closed down a factory here and moved it to Turkey which isn't even in the EU. If they want to leave they will leave anyway, the Government already encourages this and agrees to pick up the bill. You clearly have no understanding of WTO/GATT etc

If you're a US company and you wish to sell a product in Europe, would you put your European headquarters in a country which is a member of a political union allowing you to pull talent in from many different language areas without having to sponsor work visas, or would you put it in a country which is trying to distance itself from the area that you are trying to branch out in to, and which places heavy restrictions on recruiting people from outside its own borders?

Those type's of jobs you are talking about amount to literally a fraction of the total number of jobs that people do. If you need 'talent', I assume you must be talking about highly skilled work? Nobody in their right mind has argued against highly skilled immigration, but I think you know this and are deliberately pretending to be an idiot.

 

[altus]

Freedom of movement is one of the best things that ever happened to European continent. To forfeit it just because of some weird xenophobic schizo paranoia, would be madness.

You usually give a decent and long written monologue stating your point of view, but you have descended into suggesting people who vote UKIP and me
are just to be ignored because we are xenophobic schizo paranoia and mad.
cool bro.
Do you think people only travel if they live within the EU, of course you don't, you just ran out of argument.

 

[Caged]

Name a company that will leave the UK if we left the EU.

You won't do it because you can't. And no, immigrants who come here to work as cleaners or pick fruit do not create any jobs, as racist as that makes me to point out that fact.

The laughable example of Ford that Clegg used actually recently closed down a factory here and moved it to Turkey which isn't even in the EU. If they want to leave they will leave anyway, the Government already encourages this and agrees to pick up the bill. You clearly have no understanding of WTO/GATT etc

I can't because I can't see into the future. Surely you can see how making conditions unfavourable would limit future growth though? I also never mentioned immigrant cleaners so I'm not sure where that even comes into it.

Those type's of jobs you are talking about amount to literally a fraction of the total number of jobs that people do. If you need 'talent', I assume you must be talking about highly skilled work? Nobody in their right mind has argued against highly skilled immigration, but I think you know this and are deliberately pretending to be an idiot.

So how do you determine who's skilled or not without a process of generating paperwork and delaying the ability for an employer to recruit from abroad? Obviously I'm an idiot so go ahead and explain that for me.

 

[Mr. Pickle]

You mean like some sort of political union?

Are you really this thick? Is New Zealand in political union with Germany?

Wait let me think, hold on, erm, erm, NO, NO IT ISNT, THAT TRULY IS REMARKABLE

 

[arknor]

If you're a US company and you wish to sell a product in Europe, would you put your European headquarters in a country which is a member of a political union allowing you to pull talent in from many different language areas without having to sponsor work visas, or would you put it in a country which is trying to distance itself from the area that you are trying to branch out in to, and which places heavy restrictions on recruiting people from outside its own borders?



You mean like some sort of political union?

we aren't talking about America.....

we are talking about Britain trading with the eu...

We clearly aren't the only country that want to leave the EU..

want do you think is going to happen? trade agreements

 

[aslco]

Hmm interesting. Daniel Hammeman(sp?) cursing the FPTP system saying it will let Labour win when they're the minority....YOU SCUMBAGS MEDIA SMEARED THE AV REFERENDUM FOR THIS EXACT THING!

 

[MrMarvelous]

UKIP and they've actually gained ground!

 

[Caged]

we aren't talking about America.....

we are talking about Britain trading with the eu...

We clearly aren't the only country that want to leave the EU..

want do you think is going to happen? trade agreements

I was talking about one of the potential impacts on jobs of leaving the EU, you decided it was about trade for some reason.

 

[Mr. Pickle]

I can't because I can't see into the future. Surely you can see how making conditions unfavourable would limit future growth though? I also never mentioned immigrant cleaners so I'm not sure where that even comes into it.



So how do you determine who's skilled or not without a process of generating paperwork and delaying the ability for an employer to recruit from abroad? Obviously I'm an idiot so go ahead and explain that for me.

erm

Intel or ARM interview the semiconductor process engineer, and then they get a visa?

It really isn't hard. If the immigrant is actually skilled and worth it then they will get to come here

But I mean obviously Grant Shapps or you, or whoever won't be able to just employ a Nigerian or an Eastern European to clean his toilet at the drop of a hat, but I doubt I'll lose sleep over it

 

[Caged]

Are you really this thick? Is New Zealand in political union with Germany?

Wait let me think, hold on, erm, erm, NO, NO IT ISNT, THAT TRULY IS REMARKABLE

Would that be the New Zealand that wasn't mentioned in the quote at all? I think your anger is clouding your reading ability.

You mentioned countries in Europe entering into agreements with each other to make things like free movement easier. That sounds a lot like what we have at the moment.