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Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

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Rusty0611 said:
Nice false extrapolation. I didn't even come close to speaking along those lines. I think you need to calm down :p.

No, but what I'm saying is that it's his job to make things appear favourably for AMD. As it is other developers who are part of the Mantle program. So it just pays to be careful when listening to what they're saying and not disregard everything else said.
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I'm calm, but you're insinuating that he's lying, or that's how it looks to me. Because he works for AMD he will just flat out lie about Mantle. If that was the case, why would game developers join in with those lies? I'm saying that makes no sense, it would just look bad on their part.

triss said:
In Rustys defence a AMD employee also said Nvidia pulled stuff off its site that it didnt :)
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Lol true, but ive also posted a link where it's not only AMD having trouble finding that information. Anyway, that is of minimal importance in the grand scheme of things. Especially with Nvidia confessing to pcper that a part of AMD's concern was indeed correct.
 
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LtMatt said:
I'm calm, but you're insinuating that he's lying. I'm saying that makes no sense, it would just look bad on their part.
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You're not because my post did NOT suggest he was lying or even go close to suggesting that. I pointed out he's an AMD employee and therefore is paid to make sure AMD appear in the image that they wish in public even if that involves a slight spin.

I don't know for a second if that is the case, nor am I that bothered, because I'm not naive enough to take things as gospel from people who have financial links to the subject matter. Best thing to do is take all things considered but it's obviously up to you who you give weight to when drawing up your own opinions :).
 
ubersonic said:
...Are you new to graphics cards?

Devs have been joining in with Nvidia's/AMD's lies/mistruths since the 90's.
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Well by the end of the year we'll see who was right i guess. I know what my money is on. :)

Rusty0611 said:
You're not because my post did NOT suggest he was lying or even go close to suggesting that. I pointed out he's an AMD employee and therefore is paid to make sure AMD appear in the image that they wish in public even if that involves a slight spin.

I don't know for a second if that is the case, nor am I that bothered, because I'm not naive enough to take things as gospel from people who have financial links to the subject matter. Best thing to do is take all things considered but it's obviously up to you who you give weight to when drawing up your own opinions :).
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Well you can't spin something like this in my opinion. It can either work or it won't and for now im at least willing to take the word of the people who use and understand the API the best. If it comes to light that they're lying, then well ill owe a few of you an apology.
 
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LtMatt said:
I'm just going on what Thracks has said seeing as he knows Mantle a lot better than andybird does.
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I'm just going on what happens when you look at a range of quotes, all from AMD, which contradict each other... if you just want to cherry pick the quotes that suit your view point then of course you are going to be blinkered in to the view point even further

LtMatt said:
Well by the end of the year we'll see who was right i guess. I know what my money is on. :)
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ok then, £50 says that mantle does not have nvidia support by the end of the year :D
 
andybird123 said:
I'm just going on what happens when you look at a range of quotes, all from AMD, which contradict each other... if you just want to cherry pick the quotes that suit your view point then of course you are going to be blinkered in to the view point even further



ok then, £50 says that mantle does not have nvidia support by the end of the year :D
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These are quotes that Thracks gave just few days ago in response to these exact questions. I don't see how it can get any clearer lol.

I would not take your bet purely for the fact that Nvidia will not attempt to support Mantle. However if Mantle does become open, im sure it will be well reported when it does, and the SDK publicly appears on AMD's website then ill take that as i was correct and you were wrong.
 
I'd be willing to bet that the public SDK does not contain enough info for hadware makers to write drivers, so no, a public SDK is not the same thing as allowing other hardware makers to add in support, or that any drivers that COULD be written would be in any way competetive
if Intel or Nvidia go on record as saying that it does but they aren't going to, then you would have a point
 
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Unless its running on Nvidia/intel hardware ,, a Open SDK doesnt meant its capable or running on others non GCN Hardware
AMD may say it can until there blue in the face But until it happens its just hot air
Didn't AMD just finish saying Nvidia pulled stuff of their site
Gameworks in Watchdogs has hampered our performance
Both of which seem to of been proven incorrect
 
I always despised AMDs sleezy tactics crying wolf and playing the victim when they're as bad if not worse than the companies they blame. they make good gpus though and that's all I care.
 
andybird123 said:
I'd be willing to bet that the public SDK does not contain enough info for hadware makers to write drivers, so no, a public SDK is not the same thing as allowing other hardware makers to add in support, or that any drivers that COULD be written would be in any way competetive
if Intel or Nvidia go on record as saying that it does but they aren't going to, then you would have a point
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They won't be able to say that until it leaves the closed beta though and that will be around the end of the year as already stated by Thracks.

Thracks said:
While Mantle is currently in closed beta for the purposes of rapid development, our intention to release a public SDK by the end of the year would open Mantle to the same extent as any other graphics API. Further adoption beyond that point would be limited only by a hardware vendor's willingness to do so. This would also permit a software vendor to optimize a Mantle render backend for other microarchitectures.

Mantle eliminates a substantial amount of the abstraction, for example giving developers direct control of their own work queues, memory management, texture loading, batching, threading, etc. Eliminating this abstraction does not magically tie an API to one specific architecture. It just exposes the hardware for what it is.

Just like any other API, some degree of specialization in the code would be required to target a non-GCN architecture, but this is a trivial and expected outcome for anyone familiar with graphics API development.
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So Mantle will be as Open as any other API, like DX. If Nvidia want to adopt Mantle support then they can and that would be up to them. Of course we know they won't do that though.
 
NZXT30 said:
I always despised AMDs sleezy tactics crying wolf and playing the victim when they're as bad if not worse than the companies they blame. they make good gpus though and that's all I care.
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+1

It makes me laugh how some hold them, Accept they are all as bad as each other and enjoy the cards they produce.

In regards to the AMD employee looking on Nvidia's website, As my wife would say "AMD do a man look"
 
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But its not quite as simple as any vendor can make it work,, Hence why the older Non GCN cards cant use and wont be getting mantle support , The hardware does need to be of a certain criteria
Its comparable to saying any NVidia gpu can use a AMD driver or vice versa if the hardware isnt compatible it simply doesnt work
 
triss said:
But its not quite as simple as any vendor can make it work,, Hence why the older Non GCN cards cant use and wont be getting mantle support , The hardware does need to be of a certain criteria
Its comparable to saying any NVidia gpu can use a AMD driver or vice versa if the hardware isnt compatible it simply doesnt work
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Which is what I said :p
 
LtMatt said:
If it comes to light that they're lying, then well ill owe a few of you an apology.
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I don't think they are lying, more perverting the truth, so Mantle can work on any DX11/12 hardware, great, so can PhysX, but at the moment PhysX needs CUDA and Mantle needs GCN, and Nvidia are about as likely to take up Mantle as AMD were to take up PhysX.

Both vendors can say till their blue in the face that they are open to other vendors using their tech, but in reality they both know that would never happen as nobody want's to be in that situation.
 
ubersonic said:
I don't think they are lying, more perverting the truth, so Mantle can work on any DX11/12 hardware, great, so can PhysX, but at the moment PhysX needs CUDA and Mantle needs GCN, and Nvidia are about as likely to take up Mantle as AMD were to take up PhysX.

Both vendors can say till their blue in the face that they are open to other vendors using their tech, but in reality they both know that would never happen as nobody want's to be in that situation.
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Evidently this isn't the case, as the 6970 is incompatible (Official line)
 
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