Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

_Alatar_ · 30 May 2014 at 10:40

I didn't say TressFX doesn't perform well on Nvidia GPUs these days (Gameworks HBAO performs almost identically on AMD hardware btw). I said that AMD does not allow the Nvidia optimized versions to be posted:

Lauritzen:

For instance while they seem to unofficially "say" that game devs are allowed to modify the TressFX code (although they have no license to say as much), they will not allow other IHVs to post optimized versions.

http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1850372#post1850372

The only GameWorks feature in Watch dogs performs almost identically on AMD and Nvidia hardware.

Also on the stealth advertising program;

One thing about marketing is that people are supposed to know when they're being marketed to. This is a law in many countries. Which is why we have notes about product placement in TV shows, movies etc.

Nvidia's focus group was really bad back when they were doing their thing undercover. But these days they have to identify that they're a part of that group.

Here's NV's policy apparently:

"Our official stance is that employees are allowed to speak about our technologies and partners as long as they disclose they work for NVIDIA, and that their opinions are their own, not necessarily those of the company. Employees must disclose their relationship to NVIDIA whenever they talk about topics related to us. Also, we do not condone mudslinging against competitors.

AMD's similar program on the other hand has no such requirements. And such stealth marketing is indeed illegal in some parts of the world.

Most of the blog posts, reddit articles etc. that were directly from AMD have since then been deleted (for obvious reasons) but fortunately there are some copies of them out there: http://alienbabeltech.com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=24247

Our research indicates that consumers are highly persuaded by online experts and personalities, hence AMD’s advocacy marketing focus. These key influencers are AMD technology enthusiasts that are well respected in their communities: Twitter, Facebook, forums, blogs, etc.

Consumers are seeking advice from the very experts and personalities that we target. This is an example of not only aligning the troops but also providing the perfect tactic on the chosen battlefield.

At AMD, we are not only aligning resources to this trend, we are storming the online castle, kindling the fire of change, and making new friends, Facebook friends.

AMD even has online leaderboards for people they've recruited to their programs: https://northamericaninfluencer.amd.com/Leaderboard/View/1

However you never see these people identifying themselves on forums etc. where they are doing the promotional work.

LtMatt · 30 May 2014 at 10:42

WHAT? WHY AM I NOT ON THAT LIST! :mad:

oldestgregg · 30 May 2014 at 10:45

LtMatt said:
WHAT? WHY AM I NOT ON THAT LIST!

Come on Matt, you are about as stealth as a 5 year old playing hide and seek with his hands over his eyes

triss · 30 May 2014 at 10:49

oldestgregg said:
Come on Matt, you are about as stealth as a 5 year old playing hide and seek with his hands over his eyes

^^lol should be someones sig

whyscotty · 30 May 2014 at 10:51

Matt's been outed

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 10:52

_Alatar_ said:
I didn't say TressFX doesn't perform well on Nvidia GPUs these days (Gameworks HBAO performs almost identically on AMD hardware btw). I said that AMD does not allow the Nvidia optimized versions to be posted:

Lauritzen:

http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1850372#post1850372

The only GameWorks feature in Watch dogs performs almost identically on AMD and Nvidia hardware.

Also on the stealth advertising program;

One thing about marketing is that people are supposed to know when they're being marketed to. This is a law in many countries. Which is why we have notes about product placement in TV shows, movies etc.

Nvidia's focus group was really bad back when they were doing their thing undercover. But these days they have to identify that they're a part of that group.

Here's NV's policy apparently:

AMD's similar program on the other hand has no such requirements. And such stealth marketing is indeed illegal in some parts of the world.

Most of the blog posts, reddit articles etc. that were directly from AMD have since then been deleted (for obvious reasons) but fortunately there are some copies of them out there: http://alienbabeltech.com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=24247

AMD even has online leaderboards for people they've recruited to their programs: https://northamericaninfluencer.amd.com/Leaderboard/View/1

However you never see these people identifying themselves on forums etc. where they are doing the promotional work.

Actually it was not technically illegal in the US until the law changes due to Google vs Oracle and other cases,which meant AMD and Nvidia also had to declare any sort of activity in the US as it was against the law if you didn't. IIRC,there was a disclaimer in mentioned in one of the threads where they are talking about it.

However,outside the US I have no clue,anything might be possible,so it might be happening.

OTH,you need to be very careful though,Nvidia even in 2012 was accused on one of the biggest Chinese tech boards(Chiphell) of engaging in stealth marketing itself.

LtMatt · 30 May 2014 at 10:55

whyscotty said:
Matt's been outed

I'm offended im not on the list.

For at least the past year (or ever), Name ANY forum poster who has declared an affiliation with AMD's advocacy program or received hardware from them?<<<

You get free hardware?? SIGN ME UP NOW.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 10:58

BTW,ABT posted this on their main site:

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/woul...r-the-amd-advocacy-program-free-hw-available/

UPDATED March 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM PDT

We got a response from AMD as we had sent a link to Chris Hook in AMD Graphics this morning. Here is the complete email:

First let me introduce myself: My name is Robert, and I’m the product marketing manager for enthusiast graphics at AMD: desktop gaming GPUs, AMD CrossFire, and AMD Eyefinity.

I was reading around the Internet and saw that you’d posted an article regarding a comment I made in a Reddit thread concerning the AMD Advocacy Program. It seems I didn’t adequately capture what I intended, so I hope I can make myself more clear on email. J

The Advocacy Program is an extension of AMD’s preexisting New Product Review Program (NPRP), which sends hardware samples to established websites (like ABT) for the purposes of independent third-party analysis. We hope to make these same inroads with new communication channels, like bloggers, YouTube reviewers and Twitter users, all of whom provide a unique and knowledgeable perspective that could add to the audience of independent reviewers already looking at our products in traditional press outlets. There are dozens of users with extremely large networks, an interest in technology, and no mechanism by which they might have access to open and honestly review a product in the same way that you might be able to as an established journalist.

We demand complete transparency in disclosing product sources, which is an FCC requirement in the US, the jurisdiction of our corporation. That is the same standard to which we hold all reviewers, advocacy program or otherwise.

More personally, I have a zero-tolerance policy for shilling as a 10-year forum moderation vet at another hardware review site. I’ve disclosed my affiliation there. I also disclosed my affiliation on the Reddit thread, as you saw. And I haunt the Overclock.net forums where again my affiliation is public. And on Twitter, where my affiliation is again disclosed. The same is also true for Google+, and Facebook, and any other location in which I might make product recommendations.

I expect the same from everyone in our marketing departments, and so does our legal team. J

Thanks for your time,

Robert

Robert Hallock

Product Marketing Manager

AMD Radeon™ Graphics

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 11:00

LtMatt said:
I'm offended im not on the list.

You get free hardware?? SIGN ME UP NOW.

What?? Get on Roys behind and make him throw you a few more R9s and maybe an FX8350 for good measure.

Plus my GTX660 is getting a bit crap in D3.

If you can get a free R9 290X,then maybe I can badger Nvidia to give me a GTX780TI,and p0wn your arse....in D3.

LtMatt · 30 May 2014 at 11:02

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
What?? Get on Roys behind and make him throw you a few more R9s and maybe an FX8350 for good measure.

Plus my GTX660 is getting a bit crap in D3.

If you can get a free R9 290X,then maybe I can badger Nvidia to give me a GTX780TI,and p0wn your arse....in D3.

If i got a free gpu it would be all over these forums and twitter don't worry.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 11:03

Was looking at the UK stance on astroturfing:

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...cial-media-clean-the-war-against-astroturfing

The US isn't the only country that comes down hard on astroturfing (which violates federal FTC rules, too). Hiring paid shills is an excellent way to get yourself in trouble in the UK, too. In its Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading guidance, the Office of Fair Trading forbids "falsely representing oneself as a consumer," (a point alluded to in the CIPR's social media guidelines).

The Advertising Standards Authority's UK advertising code says that marketing communications must not materially mislead by omitting the identity of the marketer. 'Marketers must hold documentary evidence that a testimonial or endorsement used in a marketing communication is genuine, unless it is obviously fictitious, and hold contact details for the person who, or organisation that, gives it," it adds.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 11:05

LtMatt said:
If i got a free gpu it would be all over these forums and twitter don't worry.

You might need to move to France though,after looking at the UK stance on astroturfing.

ubersonic · 30 May 2014 at 11:06

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Plus my GTX660 is getting a bit crap in D3.

If you can get a free R9 290X,then maybe I can badger Nvidia to give me a GTX780TI,and p0wn your arse....in D3.

Diablo is hardly that GPU intensive :S I thought it was CPU bound.

LtMatt · 30 May 2014 at 11:06

Damn, there goes my only chance of owning a 295x2.

triss · 30 May 2014 at 11:06

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
What?? Get on Roys behind and make him throw you a few more R9s and maybe an FX8350 for good measure.

Plus my GTX660 is getting a bit crap in D3.

If you can get a free R9 290X,then maybe I can badger Nvidia to give me a GTX780TI,and p0wn your arse....in D3.

Try for a titan Z Cat so you can review it for us

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 11:08

triss said:
Try for a titan Z Cat so you can review it for us

It might blow up my ITX rig due to the sheer amount of power.....consumption it has!!

OTH,a GTX780TI can even work in a Shuttle:

http://hometheaterphotos.com/projector2/shuttle.jpg

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 11:11

ubersonic said:
Diablo is hardly that GPU intensive :S I thought it was CPU bound.

SHHHHHHH!

OK,how about PS2??

Wait a second??

DOH!!!!

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 May 2014 at 11:13

LtMatt said:
Damn, there goes my only chance of owning a 295x2.

You could move to Guernsey...or the French Embassy??

TheRealist · 30 May 2014 at 11:23

Damn, is anyone having any problems when installing the new 14.6 drivers? After the mandatory reboot, there is just a black screen after the "starting windows..." screen. Never had this before on any other driver, i'll just have to use the 14.4 drivers but i want that boost in Watch Dogs

I think ill have to wait until the WHQL (full) release of the 14.6 - but how long will that take, considering the beta came out 3 days ago? Hmmm...

LtMatt · 30 May 2014 at 11:29

TheRealist said:
Damn, is anyone having any problems when installing the new 14.6 drivers? After the mandatory reboot, there is just a black screen after the "starting windows..." screen. Never had this before on any other driver, i'll just have to use the 14.4 drivers but i want that boost in Watch Dogs I think ill have to wait until the WHQL (full) release of the 14.6 - but how long will that take, considering the beta came out 3 days ago? Hmmm...

Are you using msi afterburner or any overclocking tools?