It has everything to do with the discussion. The poor dont pay the most in tax, they pay proportionally more of their income but not more in total.
British public wrongly believe rich pay most in tax
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It has everything to do with the discussion. The poor dont pay the most in tax, they pay proportionally more of their income but not more in total.
No, I view it to be wrong because it is wrong. The facts a quite clear. The title is misleading, the poor pay the LEAST tax not the most.
But it doesn't sell newspapers to say the rich pay the most tax.
[TW]Fox;26463441 said:
This a rather interesting article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17397199
Nice little graphic - top is the percentile groups by salary, bottom is how much income tax they contribute.
This heavily prejudiced study deliberately ignores the effect of benefits that correct this regressiveness. If we look at the original ONS study that this one is based on for its 'actual tax rates', the bottom quintile actually have a net -200% tax rate.
Here's the table from the ONS study that calculates 'final' income net of tax and benefits: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/house...ousehold-income/2011-2012/chd-sb-figure-1.xls (excel)
As you can see we do have a highly progressive system. That doesn't mean that our tax system is anywhere near optimal, but it's massively dishonest to only consider half of the equation in this sort of debate.
Here's the table from the ONS study that calculates 'final' income net of tax and benefits: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/house...ousehold-income/2011-2012/chd-sb-figure-1.xls (excel)
As you can see we do have a highly progressive system. That doesn't mean that our tax system is anywhere near optimal, but it's massively dishonest to only consider half of the equation in this sort of debate.
No, it is not wrong. You view it wrong because you judge it on total £ where I view it as %.
But it doesn't help the people who sponsor the political parties to say the rich pay the least tax.
That's kind of ironical ...
Associate
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That doesn't include consumption taxes which are primarily what leads to the statistics given in the OP. What is does suggests is that reducing the income tax burden on the lowest earners (even bottom quartile or more) probably makes a fairly small impact on the finances of the nation while significantly improving the finances of those affected.
A bit like the coalition are doing.
I haven't looked at the data, but I suspect that OP doesn't include benefit income. That would totally warp the effect of VAT if you assume that all taxes are paid out of non-benefit income.
Plus, local councils are run by incompetent and, frankly, dangerous people in some cases.
Soldato
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Randomly making up figures proves what?
12k gross means £75 for income tax + NI.
Council tax is what £120 or so
You pay your rent and whats left to be taxed through duty or VAT?
[TW]Fox;26463441 said:
Nor would it fit reality.
A thought experiment - you have a choice between these lives:
1) You work 45 hours per week and are paid £15,000 per year. You pay a total of £6400 in taxes and therefore have £8600 a year to pay for everything - food, housing costs, transport, etc.
2) You work 45 hours per week and are paid £50,000 per year. You pay a total of £16,600 in taxes and therefore have £33,400 a year to pay for everything - food, housing costs, transport, etc.
3) You work 60 hours per week and are paid £500,000 per year. You pay a total of £175,000 in taxes and therefore have £325,000 a year to pay for everything - food, housing costs, transport, etc.
4) You are independently wealthy and don't need to work at all. Your income is £1,000,000 a year and due to the expertise of the accountant you hire you pay a total of £200,000 in taxes (mostly in the form of taxes such as VAT - your accountant games the system to avoid almost all income tax) and therefore have £800,000 a year to pay for everything - food, housing costs, transport, etc.
So...which would you chose? (1) pays the least "in terms of actual £ paid in tax". So you'd chose that option, right?
Where is council tax £120 per year and why aren't lots of people moving there?
This a rather interesting article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17397199
Nice little graphic - top is the percentile groups by salary, bottom is how much income tax they contribute.
Yup, thanks for posting that, saved me some time, the bbc even had john snow show this in virtual form on a TV program.
Lowest council tax ironically was Westminster last time I looked. Funny that.
They were just made up to easily portray what the article is trying to get across.
But yes, if I you break it down... Someone on 12k gross pays £75 income and NI. Throw ontop £120 council tax. Throw in some fuel duty ~£40?
So someone on 12k gross a year or 1k gross a month spends £235 a month on tax. 23.5%
Now we take a high earner. Lets say £120k gross. 10k a month gross. They pay ~£3937 on NI and income alone. Thats already ~40%. That doesn't support the articles findings.
He was referring to a month I gathered. £75 income and NI and £120 council tax per month. Taken away from a gross wage of £1k.
Soldato
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per month
Yes there is a lot of things that are made up to get across someones argument, for the purposes of this thread it is the guardian who decided to make up figures.
I have joked that I'm going to stand for election to my local council with the pledge that I will waste everyone's taxes on beer and strippers and that I'd probably win the election because voters will think that I won't be wasting it as badly as the current council. The joke works because it has some truth in it.
By counting sin taxes, and conveniently forgetting that the poor are more likely to smoke and drink, as well as gailing to provide a proper net contribution model, this study only succeeds in demonstrating the intellectual dishonesty of the left and the equality industry, rather than a valid critique of the actual tax and benefits system...