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Richard Huddy - Gaming Scientist Interviewed

GoogalyMoogaly said:
The other thing is that, as I understand it, Mantle doesn't do what DirectX 11 does, it does what Direct3D v11 does.
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Correct, Mantle is no where near as broad as DirectX in applications - at the moment Mantle only covers 3D gaming applications (which is, as you say, similar to the D3D part of DX). Whereas DirectX also covers features like audio and so on and so forth.
 
I didn't realise the xbox was on dx11, thought it was something else, my bad.

Personally I don't see that AMD want to remain in control. The whole point of Mantle wasn't to get one over Nvidia but more to boost the performance of current PCs which is what they have achieved. We don't actually know the performance figures of a Nvidia card running Mantle, they may be higher.

If AMD were the cagey type then TressFX for example would have been kept behind closed doors, etc.

Can't AMD use their TrueAudio for that instead?
 
PhysicsMan94 said:
Correct, Mantle is no where near as broad as DirectX in applications - at the moment Mantle only covers 3D gaming applications (which is, as you say, similar to the D3D part of DX). Whereas DirectX also covers features like audio and so on and so forth.
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I think it's an important distinction.
If DirectX 12 is also updating all the extra bit that go into DirectX above Direct3D then I think this explains why it's taking as long as it is to produce.
Mantle took 2-3 years and does what Direct3D does for a subset of 1 vendors cards.
 
JamesM said:
I didn't realise the xbox was on dx11, thought it was something else, my bad.

Personally I don't see that AMD want to remain in control. The whole point of Mantle wasn't to get one over Nvidia but more to boost the performance of current PCs which is what they have achieved. We don't actually know the performance figures of a Nvidia card running Mantle, they may be higher.

If AMD were the cagey type then TressFX for example would have been kept behind closed doors, etc.

Can't AMD use their TrueAudio for that instead?
Click to expand...

Currently not sure what the XBOX ONE runs, but apparently it's not very good. So they want to put DirectX 12 on it (or maybe just Direct3D v12). As far as I'm aware the XBOX doesn't run Directx 11 and will not run Directx 11.

In that video Richard Huddy of AMD says that AMD will retain control of Mantle. And earlier LtMatt said you had good listening skills! :)
 
triss said:
haha i'll remember that all articles 4 months or older are now invalid :P
Thats most the launch mantle slides out for starters :cool:
But getting back to mantle is now more than a low level api Humbug what is it now?
Even though it will evolve isnt it still just a API like DX?
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Its not just a Graphics API, Its being developed to complement their Heterogeneous System Architecture, and Unified Memory Architecture.

Right now a CPU cannot use the GPU's VRAM or L2 cache for calculations work and vice vera. But Tte hardware already exists in AMD APU's, even without Mantle FP operations normally done on the CPU, are improved 10 fold because the architecture has a direct link to the iGPU core, this already has massive benefits in a limited number of applications.

This does not work with discrete GPU's because they are a separate system, Mantle has the technology to unify the CPU and discrete GPU FP through-put into a single pool, so the massive horse power of the GPU can be exploited for parallel compute operations that would normally be done in serial on the CPU.

What this means is the performance of Productivity work is increased massively.

It also means that in terms of gaming; Physics, AI and render operations can be moved from the slow CPU to the fast GPU

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Aren't Qualcomm mostly mobile though? And Huddy said they're not looking at doing a mobile API.

When Intel have licensed AMD tech before, how often has there been an alternative (that is likely to become the market leader) as another option?

I know people will continue to say that once it has it's official sdk Nvidia will be free to adopt Mantle, but I think that's like saying "You're free to cut your leg off with a hacksaw". More than likely doable, but seems highly unlikely and really quite a stupid idea.
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I don't know where Huddy said "they are not looking at Mobile" from what I see he said the opposite to that, he said tablets ecte would benefit greatly from Mantle, and he would be right, Mantle can exploit much more performance from the limitations of Tablets.

Qualcomm are a licensee of HSA with all the potential benefits I explained to triss.

Intel are also looking into breaking into the Tablet market, and struggling to do so, with their main competitors (ARM and Qualcomm) members of the HSA foundation they would be fools to continue to sit on the side-lines now.
 
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humbug said:
Its not just a Graphics API, Its being developed to complement their Heterogeneous System Architecture, and Unified Memory Architecture.

Right now a CPU cannot use the GPU's VRAM or L2 cache for calculations work and vice vera. But Tte hardware already exists in AMD APU's, even without Mantle FP operations normally done on the CPU, are improved 10 fold because the architecture has a direct link to the iGPU core, this already has massive benefits in a limited number of applications.

This does not work with discrete GPU's because they are a separate system, Mantle has the technology to unify the CPU and discrete GPU FP through-put into a single pool, so the massive horse power of the GPU can be exploited for parallel compute operations that would normally be done in serial on the CPU.

What this means is the performance of Productivity work is increased massively.

It also means that in terms of gaming; Physics, AI and render operations can be moved from the slow CPU to the fast GPU



I don't know where Huddy said "they are not looking at Mobile" from what I see he said the opposite to that, he said tablets ecte would benefit greatly from Mantle, and he would be right, Mantle can exploit much more performance from the limitations of Tablets.

Qualcomm are a licensee of HSA with ll the potential benefits I explained to triss.

Intel are also looking into breaking into the Tablet market, and struggling to do so, with their main competitors (ARM and Qualcomm) members of the HSA foundation they would be fools to continue to sit on the side-lines now.
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I can't be bothered watching the 83 minute long AMD advert again, so I'll leave that.
Wasn't there a lot of people saying that DX12 will be rubbish if it support PC, XBOX and tablets/mobile, but Mantle would be better because it's a dedicated PC API?
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
I can't be bothered watching the 83 minute long AMD advert again, so I'll leave that.
Wasn't there a lot of people saying that DX12 will be rubbish if it support PC, XBOX and tablets/mobile, but Mantle would be better because it's a dedicated PC API?
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Mantle would be is better because its far more sophisticated technology, its can do a whole lot more than DX12 as DX12 does not contain AMD's other technologies, such as HSA and hUMA.

Its simply a Graphics and compute API with the same narrow range of use and limitations of all Direct 3D implimentations
 
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humbug said:
Mantle would be is better because its far more sophisticated technology, its can do a whole lot more than DX12 as DX12 does not contain AMD's other technologies, such as HSA and hUMA.

Its simply a Graphics and compute API with the same narrow range of use and limitations of all Direct 3D implimentations
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But DX12 contains input 'stuff' and audio 'stuff' too. Not sure that Mantle does that.
 
humbug said:
Mantle would be is better because its far more sophisticated technology, its can do a whole lot more than DX12 as DX12 does not contain AMD's other technologies, such as HSA and hUMA.

Its simply a Graphics and compute API with the same narrow range of use and limitations of all Direct 3D implimentations
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This is completely incorrect, DirectX offers much more than the D2D and D3D application support. You should read up more on what DirectX actually is and what it can do.
 
PhysicsMan94 said:
This is completely incorrect, DirectX offers much more than the D2D and D3D application support. You should read up more on what DirectX actually is and what it can do.
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The point is DX cannot pool serial and parallel operations in the same through-put, so DX cannot run PhysX, AI and serial render operation on the GPU.

With HSA implemented Mantle you can, because of the massive performance gain that brings you can run much better, more sophisticated Physics and AI.

Better looking games, with more goodies and more going on.
 
humbug said:
The point is DX cannot pool serial and parallel operations in the same through-put, so DX cannot run PhysX, AI and serial render operation on the GPU.

With HSA implemented Mantle you can, because of the massive performance gain that brings you can run much better, more sophisticated Physics and AI.

Better looking games, with more goodies and more going on.
Click to expand...

I thought PhysX was run on the GPU?
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
I thought PhysX was run on the GPU?
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Nvidia PhysX, yes sorry, Nvidia do that through their own software implementations. not to dissimilar to HSA, I would have though.

I meant to say Physics, as in Havok for example, think BF4 Shanghai tower and other destructive props that break apart when you shoot at it.
 
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On board or dedicated, doesn't matter shanks, DX does the sound in DX games, Mantle could be doing the sound too, but idk the actual answer, one for matt to throw at repi or thracks.
 
yeah I'm pretty sure whatever the graphics API it also renders the sound. Matt you and you contacts are needed :D
 
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