National Service

porushinobu said:
I believe benefit scroungers should be put on some kind of goverment enforced work, not necessarily military service though. Nothing should be for free.
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Indeed. Putting everyone who is on benefits into military service will cost a lot more to the tax payer than the hand outs they are getting (people ought to stop banging on the witch hunt with the assumption that everyone on benefits are living it large, they really are not and generally struggle to get by with the measly amounts they manage to get - time to stop watching C4 "documentaries" that only serve to fuel the hate crowd).

All these people being proposed to join the forces, what jobs do you all expect them to be doing once there? I guarantee that most of their time they would end up sat, in crew rooms and naafi bars, drinking tea and doing sweet FA. It really wouldn't be worth the investment :)

balky12 said:
Great article Sir!
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I love the picture of Generation G.I. with a little stick man grandad in the back ground calling the youths "pussies" it makes me chuckle :D So apt.
 
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pitchfork said:
It would cost jobs in the public and private sector and not replace them but hiring a few slave drivers and then using more public money to buy goods from private sector firms.
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It might cost jobs, but that is just blind assertion on your part. You've no factual basis to make such a claim, or at least you're not presenting it here. So despite the vim with which you make your argument, it is just an opinion.

No there isn't, what the hell are you talking about? Businesses underhire - not because they can't afford to hire more people but because they can survive like that and make more money. There's a reason in some companies people work so much (often unpaid) overtime.
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I don't think you grasped my point in the least. You also seem to be conflating public sector and private sector motives.

There are far more jobs need doing than public sector budgets allow, this should be obvious to anyone who lives in the real world. How many times have you seen trash in the street, graffiti on walls, rubbish strewn on beaches, parks not given proper care? We cannot afford to employee people to do all of this work.

The private sector cannot make a profit doing this work, because the minimum wage creates a prohibitive base cost for public sector budgets.

People are going to work for free, let alone do it well. Not everyone in the public sector is unskilled - do you even know what the hell you're talking about? Not only that but staffing isn't even close to the biggest cost, the savings would be minimal at best.

I work in the public sector and most people have masters degrees if not PhD's, and you couldn't rope in an 18 year old to do the job neither.

Public sector jobs don't just do nothing, the vast majority of public services fund investments which generate huge amounts of wealth in all 3 sectors, not to mention the impact outside of finance - social issues, medicine, technology, space exploration, engineering the list goes on.
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You are arguing with your own shadow on these points, because I never said anything about replacing skilled or professional public sector employees. I was simply pointing out that if we could replace them and maintain the same level of service, that would be a good thing.

And who's going to bother funding it? The public sector workers you just sacked so you can force people into slavery?

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Your concept of labour market economics seems to be based on "I dun red the newspaper once" and your concept of job creation is comparable to that of a small child.
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Public sector employees don't fund anything as they do not create wealth. I pay taxes, some of that goes towards paying you. When you pay taxes, you're just returning money I'd already given the tax man.

That is not to say the public sector is not worthwhile, as obviously we need doctors, nurses, teachers, civil servants and so forth. But the point remains, they don't (on the whole) actually add wealth.
 
shiver said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service

I know it's a wiki link but I find it interest, had no idea how many countries have compulsory military service!
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I've got friends who've done South Korean and Finnish national service. One hardly knew any Finnish and only went over there for a holiday with his mum's side of the family! I've got another friend who's currently considered AWOL from Greek nation service. He came over here to get his PhD and now has no intention of going back until they change the law.

Most countries seem to be in the relaxing their national service laws though. Greek national service has hardly helped their economy or sense of civic duty.
 
Tunney said:
Greek national service has hardly helped their economy or sense of civic duty.
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And why would it, it's not automatic that being in the army makes you good, Non of the ex servicemen I know are paragons of virtue as a result, some have fond memories of fun but most of the stories I hear are negative tales of various BS.
 
Captain Planet said:
Indeed. Putting everyone who is on benefits into military service will cost a lot more to the tax payer than the hand outs they are getting (people ought to stop banging on the witch hunt with the assumption that everyone on benefits are living it large, they really are not and generally struggle to get by with the measly amounts they manage to get - time to stop watching C4 "documentaries" that only serve to fuel the hate crowd).

All these people being proposed to join the forces, what jobs do you all expect them to be doing once there? I guarantee that most of their time they would end up sat, in crew rooms and naafi bars, drinking tea and doing sweet FA. It really wouldn't be worth the investment :)
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some kind of community work would be much more appropriate, street cleaning and other job, that way they can earn the dole as if its a wage, or even be given a wage after they manage to pass their probationary period in their new field.
 
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