The EU - stick up yer Juncker!

Now lets see if Cameron brings the vote forward like he said he would. Time to leave the EU.
 
One said:
We should give all our power over to the EU. Why not? What the **** has the UK gov really accomplished in the past 100 years? All change has been caused directly by multi-million pound corporations, either through their lobbying to alter legislation or through technological steps forward which have changed the environment we live in.
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Played a massive part in saving the lives of hundreds of millions of people and defeated the greatest threat to humanity in modern history.

They could have been like a few of the other European countries who either chucked the towel in or joined in with the genocide.
 
The EU is far too authoritarian for my liking, someone who wants 'more Europe' in its current form is only ever going to drive me to vote no in the event of a referendum, despite the fact that I am certainly pro the idea of a correctly structured EU with sufficiently explicit protections of all rights (no special case allowing for state property rights abuses) and default decentralisation rather than everything heading for the centre.
 
I would keep the best of the eu which is essentially a free trade zone where goods and services can operate across borders with as little custom and duties as possible, but that is it. No common policies, no (mandatory) common currencies, no central european government of any kind is necessary to have a free trade zone. In some ways that is how the eu started out as a free trade zone. The league of nations is realy the political side of the eu that formed after the world wars to prevent conflict in the region amongst all the different cultures and was started with the best intentions. That some how morphed in to the current baphomet of a european government that we see today.
 
All this has really highlighted is how utterly outclassed Cameron is as a politician - he honestly thought he had a slim chance of getting something done, and all it took was Merkel gently cracking the whip and he looks like a complete joke.

And he won't move forward the 'referendum' either (which was never going to happen regardless).
 
OldCoals said:
How does that work then?
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Because we need to do business with the EU (our biggest trading partner) therefore on leaving the EU we'll have get a free trade agreement which will almost certainly say that we have to abide by EU rules - just like Switzerland and Norway have to do.
 
Phreaky said:
All this has really highlighted is how utterly outclassed Cameron is as a politician - he honestly thought he had a slim chance of getting something done, and all it took was Merkel gently cracking the whip and he looks like a complete joke.

And he won't move forward the 'referendum' either (which was never going to happen regardless).
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So what you are saying is that you should agree to something you fundamentally oppose because other parties won't agree with you?
 
Dolph said:
So what you are saying is that you should agree to something you fundamentally oppose because other parties won't agree with you?
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Maybe next time you start frothing with rage, pause a little before making yourself look like a clown?

He tried. That's good. He's a **** politician who is out of his depth. That's bad. If he was actually worth a damn in the international political arena he could have tried AND succeeded.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but he's not even an MEP. How can we have a President who has not even been elected. Say what you like about our politicians, but at least they have to be voted into their seat.
 
Phreaky said:
Maybe next time you start frothing with rage, pause a little before making yourself look like a clown?

He tried. That's good. He's a **** politician who is out of his depth. That's bad. If he was actually worth a damn in the international political arena he could have tried AND succeeded.
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Do you really think that is the case, that the problem was purely down to Cameron? Remember Blair trading part our rebate for a promise to consider future reform of the cap which of course the French have blocked.

The real issue is that Europe is moving in a way that the UK doesn't want to follow, but despite there being significant votes for less Europe in other European countries, the European way is to ignore such things. With such blind adherence to an ideal, no rational argument can get through because you cannot reason people out of an ideological position.

Our only hope is that the other key net contributors (primarily Germany) want to protect their finances, hence why the UK needs to be clear that it is willing to leave.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but he's not even an MEP. How can we have a President who has not even been elected. Say what you like about our politicians, but at least they have to be voted into their seat.
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None of the European Commissioners (and Juncker is now Presdident of the EC) are elected, they're appointed by member states.
 
Phreaky said:
All this has really highlighted is how utterly outclassed Cameron is as a politician
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I highly doubt any PM would have done any better, at least he isn't a weasel coward that Ed Miliband is and gave it a shot.

Miliband's statement just showed just how retarded he is
 
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