More than half of homes take more than they contribute

[Freakbro]

So in 2012-13 the Govt received £154.8 Bn in Income Tax & £105.6 Bn in NI - and paid out £28.9 Bn in Working Tax Credits and £4.5 Bn in JSA

To put it into context the whole Dept for Work & Pensions budget is about £160 Bn

So the 'unemployed lazy scroungers' (who only make up a small % of the JSA claiments anyway) are hardly worth the amount of attention they get.

There are a lot bigger issues to sort out.

 

[balky12]

The problem with that though is what if a couple or single parent has more children then they can afford to support on a minimum wage. I've been brought up with the notion, only have as many children as you can afford. But simply too many people are having too many children that they can't afford to keep.

Indeed it becomes a problem. But tough ****. Just because a women can't keep her legs shut or a guy can't wrap it up doesn't mean the state should provide. Kids are a luxuary, not a god given right. If you have too many kids and can't look after them then sorry in my books that's not far removed from child neglect.

That might come across strong. But I think you have to have a strong stance to get anywhere otherwise people take this ****. I think child credits should stay, for the first 2 children. As having children is not cheap, and probably more expensive than you first realise. But once you have had one, with a little help, you can see how you fair. Can afford to have another great, here have some help again. Anything after 2 though and you are on your own.

please fully star out swearies - thanks

 

[Hxc]

Surely that's just how it works? Half of people get more than they give, half of people give more than they get, with a very small cross over in the middle?

 

[Efour]

Why do you guys go full retard instantly?

Chances are anyone putting 2 or 3 children through 2y + 3y + 5y + 2y years of schooling will be taking more money than it costs. Thats the price of running and an education system.

Chances are they will be taking more than they pay for Doctor and Dentist charges.

Working tax credits - I'm sure some here claim it? Maybe the majority of you are too young or without families.

Attacking single mums and dole scroungers, whilst it might make you feel better short term, doesn't achieve much of anything.

At least Nix gets it.

 

[LordSplodge]

Surely that's just how it works? Half of people get more than they give, half of people give more than they get, with a very small cross over in the middle?

Indeed, also the higher end pays more (as they earn much more) but let's not let this get in the way of the Right Wing OCUK posters having a rant about scroungers!

 

[anything I don't mind]

This is why socialism is unsustainable. Eventually you run out of other peoples money. Labour is only getting started as well, they want to "boost" minimum wage and increase taxes on the rich and of course increase spending in all sectors. New labour slogan, Spend, Spend, Spend.... dum dum duurrr, Spend, spend, spend it ain't my money and it ain't your money, spend, spend, spend...

Im still working on the slogan but its work in progress.

Labour spending their way out of poverty, spending their way to social mobility.

What do you think?

 

[£15]

So in 2012-13 the Govt received £154.8 Bn in Income Tax & £105.6 Bn in NI - and paid out £28.9 Bn in Working Tax Credits and £4.5 Bn in JSA

To put it into context the whole Dept for Work & Pensions budget is about £160 Bn

So the 'unemployed lazy scroungers' (who only make up a small % of the JSA claiments anyway) are hardly worth the amount of attention they get.

There are a lot bigger issues to sort out.

This. But let's not a few facts and the bashing of the poor get in the way of a good story/rant.

 

[arknor]

It's because the minimum wage is artificially low and the government tops up loads of peoples wages with housing benefits and working tax credits etc

It's not a living wage

 

[balky12]

Indeed, also the higher end pays more (as they earn much more) but let's not let this get in the way of the Right Wing OCUK posters having a rant about scroungers!

Are you perfectly fine with those who play the system and rely on the state/ others paying their way just because they are too lazy / made poor life decisions?

If so you are part of the problem.

Yes the system has it's flaws and it allows these kind of mentalities to exist. 'Sod it the state will look after me'. There isn't an easy fix as we are too far down the line. But having a dig at people who disagree with the morality of these people is laughable.

'You're a right wing baddie because you disagree with people playing the system and claiming / living in inherited council housing / popping out babies for free stuffs' :\

 

[Fubsy]

This. But let's not a few facts and the bashing of the poor get in the way of a good story/rant.

Well no it's not really a rant is it, given that posters facts then even people that are working are taking more out than putting in because they simply don't earn enough, and have their earnings topped up with Working Tax Credits that will overtake what they pay in tax. Nevermind what they use in public services.

 

[Freakbro]

Are you perfectly fine with those who play the system and rely on the state/ others paying their way just because they are too lazy / made poor life decisions?

If so you are part of the problem.

Yes the system has it's flaws and it allows these kind of mentalities to exist. 'Sod it the state will look after me'. There isn't an easy fix as we are too far down the line. But having a dig at people who disagree with the morality of these people is laughable.

'You're a right wing baddie because you disagree with people playing the system and claiming / living in inherited council housing / popping out babies for free stuffs' :\

But these people who you are describing are such a minority, a tiny tiny percentage, that they are not really that much of financial issue to get so worked up about, that you think tackling this 'problem' will solve anything at all.

 

[Fubsy]

It's because the minimum wage is artificially low and the government tops up loads of peoples wages with housing benefits and working tax credits etc

It's not a living wage

This is the big problem that people should be outraged about, not the total waste of space scroungers that are so inconsequential in the whole scale of welfare costs.

 

[Haggisman]

Are you perfectly fine with those who play the system and rely on the state/ others paying their way just because they are too lazy / made poor life decisions?

Except it's not just people who are lazy/made poor life decisions who are net receivers, and it's not just people who play the system. It's people who work hard in decent jobs and earn more than the average UK wage...

 

[balky12]

Except it's not just people who are lazy/made poor life decisions who are net receivers, and it's not just people who play the system. It's people who work hard in decent jobs and earn more than the average UK wage...

I appreciate that. I was just building on LordSlodges comments about us bashing 'scroungers'. That segment of society do deserved to be bashed. Regardless of political alignment.

 

[arknor]

LOL dat debt interest it's now at 53bn as well

 

[MookJong]

Start by making corporations like Tesco pay their employees more. Workers on low wages get topped up with tax credits etc. which we pay for. All the while the Tesco directors are on millions and their shareholders are enjoying the benefit.

 

[Fubsy]

Start by making corporations like Tesco pay their employees more. Workers on low wages get topped up with tax credits etc. which we pay for. All the while the Tesco directors are on millions and their shareholders are enjoying the benefit.

Exactly, they are the real scumbag scroungers.

 

[413x]

I often wonder what it would be like if everyone played the system with their current circumstances

If everyone who could be better off not working etc did that (Ie choosing not so work) what extra strain would be put on this figure

I'm fairly sure it's if you do or don't have kids + jobs that contribute to whether you fall in what category at approx average family

Ie. If I never have kids (the plan) I would be paying for a lot of services I don't benefit from
I don't know how the figure is worked out but there are factors such as I am benefiting from other children going to school in that if everyone had no children there would be no one to pay for my state pension etc

With these sorts of factors most likely not calculated on you probably have to look at those figures and your position in them with some flexibility

 

[balky12]

But these people who you are describing are such a minority, a tiny tiny percentage, that they are not really that much of financial issue to get so worked up about, that you think tackling this 'problem' will solve anything at all.

No you're right. Like I said I was building on LordSplodges comments. But just because something is a minority, doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. How to address it is the problem. Especially something like this. It will soon get out of control and become an issue in generations to come. As these families have children that grow up with no ambition and knowing nothing else apart from living off the state, they will then in turn have children, and the problem soon multiplies.

But back on the topic, it was brought up a couple weeks ago in a big thread. Being a net contributer does take a fairly sizeable wage. On that sizeable wage you probably send your kids to private school/ have private healthcare/ etc. So what you take from the state also has the potential to diminishes fairly quickly.

 

[MB101]

These threads

Always end up going the same direction...down the ****ter.