More than half of homes take more than they contribute

[Schlong&Stable]

State pensions are what we need to get rid of in the long run, as even if we achieve full employment, that figure is still going to grow as the demographics arent against us. Everyone should have a private pension with employer contributions.

Also, we need to get rid of as much debt as we can. That massive interest repayment needs to be sorted out.

 

[Caged]

I'd like to hear how those proposing benefits are paid as 'food stamps' think it would solve any issues at all. In reality it would cost a fortune to administer, give the retailers who were part of the scheme an unfair advantage over people like market traders, and be wide open to abuse as people traded them on the black market for half their value in cash.

 

[The Dread Pirate]

most people don't understand the reality of benefits unless you have children you don't get a whole lot from not working.

theres probably some people on here who can give you some stories if not check the benefits calculator and then wonder how you are supposed to manage on that.

I wouldn't allow myself to get into the position of needing benefits in the 1st place, I don't mind if the person claiming is actually in need but the stories I've heard and examples I've actually met who believe they're entitled to benefits even though they don't need it or shouldn't have it because they're actually gaming the system just **** me off also the parents who claim child benefit who are then saying they're struggling to make ends meet while talking on their iPhone and watching Sky really **** me off Basically my point is "stop living beyond your means and sort your priorities out for **** sake!"

 

[Hyburnate]

That vast majority of rich people do just about anything to avoid paying proper taxation, they have that already. If they'd stop shipping all the money abroad and god knows what I might say it was a bit unfair, hell if they played fair we could afford to reduce taxation on the wealthy.

But if isn't just the rich avoiding paying their dues, it's the greedy shareholders in big business who are largely responsible for this great imbalance.

Working people keep earning less and less and the prices keep rising more and more, it's no surprise the tax they pay doesn't cover the services they receive.

If it isn't unscrupulous employment practices it's outsourcing to china and telling the remaining staff to think themselves lucky they have a job, or hiring people on zero hour contracts or part time contracts, or using slave labour from the "back to work" scheme.

Completely agree, last parliament there was bills going through to stop 0 hour contracts but I don't believe they made it before the end. It would be nice to see them being proposed again and making it to legislation.

State pensions are what we need to get rid of in the long run. Everyone should have a private pension. Also, we need to get rid of as much debt as we can. That massive interest repayment needs to be sorted out.

I feel this is the idea of it, its law now to be given a pension scheme so I wouldn't be surprised if before long state pension is gone, I'm not sure what that means for people who haven't been able to work because of illnesses etc.

Although then pension age people get upset because they've paid into the economy through their wages for all of their life and the majority of people at pension age at the moment haven't exactly had the easiest of lives.

I wouldn't allow myself to get into the position of needing benefits in the 1st place, I don't mind if the person claiming is actually in need but the stories I've heard and examples I've actually met who believe they're entitled to benefits even though they don't need it or shouldn't have it because they're actually gaming the system just **** me off also the parents who claim child benefit who are then saying they're struggling to make ends meet while talking on their iPhone and watching Sky really **** me off Basically my point is "stop living beyond your means and sort your priorities out for **** sake!"

Oh I agree, there are a few people that claim benefits that really don't need them, however what you've got to accept is that these are in the minority.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

I'd like to hear how those proposing benefits are paid as 'food stamps' think it would solve any issues at all. In reality it would cost a fortune to administer, give the retailers who were part of the scheme an unfair advantage over people like market traders, and be wide open to abuse as people traded them on the black market for half their value in cash.

They can be given electronic debit cards. Market stalls ought to join the 21st century and accept card payments as the technology to do so is now cheap and mobile. The benefits of being able to curtail people buying alcohol, tobacco and so forth would far outweigh that cost.

 

[LordSplodge]

Are you perfectly fine with those who play the system and rely on the state/ others paying their way just because they are too lazy / made poor life decisions?

No, I'm not happy about those who fiddle the system. But given those folks are such a tiny percentage of the overall cost (despite what the media would lead you to believe) I'm not going to lose sleep over them.

I have no issue with the state helping hard working families. I don't mind my tax going there after all a decent society supports those who need it. As for being punished for making poor life decisions. Well nobody is perfect and you shouldn't just write people off because they've made some bad choices.

Part of the problem. Pull the other one. Right wing sabre rattling is more of a problem if you ask me.

 

[arknor]

As a Single 27 yr old with a mortgage, no debt, no credit and no benefits I get angry at these statistics

as a 27 year old living in 1 bed council/housing association property paying £100 rent a week in a band A property with the same postal address as OCUK you would get

Enjoy the high life on benefits m8 no need to worry about that mortgage, sell the house stick any left over on black and keep going until you're a rich man or dirt poor either way you get to live the high life and never have to worry about money again
£3,775.14 a year goes a long way I'm sure after deduct your electric, water,tv license, heating, food, toiletries and other consumables you will have enough money left over to live comfortably

I'm not sure exactly how it works but according to ocuk you can afford a 4k TV,sky subscription gaming console and an unlimited supply of ciggies and booze whilst living entirely on takeaways

 

[Caged]

I wouldn't allow myself to get into the position of needing benefits in the 1st place

Unfortunately not everyone is able to predict the future as excellently as you obviously are and avoid redundancies caused by the collapse of an employer, a rent hike at the end of a year, an unexpected repair needed on a car that wipes out a small rainy day fund etc. You must truly be enlightened or foolish to be so certain that you will never need the safety net of the welfare system.

 

[LordSplodge]

I wouldn't allow myself to get into the position of needing benefits in the 1st place

Never planning on losing your job and running out of savings or never getting a disability? Dude, you've got some good foresight there.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

lol
Might have something to do with the fact that minimum wage hasn't kept up with the rate of inflation

 

[Caged]

They can be given electronic debit cards. Market stalls ought to join the 21st century and accept card payments as the technology to do so is now cheap and mobile. The benefits of being able to curtail people buying alcohol, tobacco and so forth would far outweigh that cost.

And then people will buy £20 worth of bread and swap it for £10 of booze with someone across the street, assuming that stores even bother to enforce what the card can be used for in the first place. If people want to drink and smoke then they are going to.

 

[danielanthony]

These threads

Always end up going the same direction...down the ****ter.

Er, nope.

If I refer you back to the OP:

Some 52 per cent of households, or 13.8 million families, received more in benefits and public services than they contributed in taxes last year, according to the Office for National Statistics.
In 1977, just 40 per cent of households took more than they contributed, rising to 44 per cent in 2000.

My point is, what happens when this reaches 80%, or 90%? Just falling back on the old arguments of attacking the poor, evil Tories blah blah isn't going to wash when the country is insolvent. I've even pointed out that most of the benefits go to people IN work (and pensioners), so not bashing those who are unemployed and looking for work. I think there are one of two solutions to this:

1) My preference would be for companies to pay more to their employees. People on here have moaned about big corporations dodging taxes LEGALLY, well getting them to pay more in salaries and employers NI is one of the few ways to easily get more money out of the Amazon's of this world.

2) Put an actual cap on the benefits bill, say 15% of the total tax take, rather than the blank cheque mentality which currently prevails. This would stop spending getting out-of-control in relation to the money coming in, but would obviously lead to a fall in living standards but that a problem of being in a recession.

 

[Amp34]

are you serious? job seekers allowance is only around 6b... disability allowance is only supposed to be around 1% fraud

most of the money going to scroungers will be single mothers with children that don't have to work even if the child has a full time nursery placement etc

not people on JSA

biggest problem is pensions but we are bringing in immigrants to pay for our old folk, then we can bring in more immigrants to pay for these immigrants pensions and the cycle continues forever.

Until we all live in some kind of utopian future akin to Judge Dredd...

We need a major change in the growth system as it's unsustainable. Unfortunately that will be political suicide for any major party to do until we end up in the Dredd style future and it's too late...

 

[Schlong&Stable]

And then people will buy £20 worth of bread and swap it for £10 of booze with someone across the street, assuming that stores even bother to enforce what the card can be used for in the first place. If people want to drink and smoke then they are going to.

Possibly, yes. But any obstacles we can create for the purchase of luxuries rather than necessities is a worthwhile endeavour.

 

[Caged]

Possibly, yes. But any obstacles we can create for the purchase of luxuries rather than necessities is a worthwhile endeavour.

I'd personally much rather see the money/effort that would be spent in creating such a scheme be directed at some sort of regulation of the private rental market, as opposed to letting the current wild west mentality continue.

 

[AndyCroft1982]

I totally agree that people who are on job seekers should work whilst claiming, however, we found out that if you are claiming you are not allowed to do any voluntary work otherwise they will stop your money as they say you have to be available for an interview at all times ??? Surely not being able to do volunteer work stops you from getting some work experience. Seems stupid to me

 

[The Dread Pirate]

Never planning on losing your job and running out of savings or never getting a disability? Dude, you've got some good foresight there.

I've saved in case of any of the above £250 per month goes into savings after 7 years of slid work I've got a rather large fall back in case I do lose my job etc... Plus if I did get a disability(could happen) or run out of savings (very unlikley) I'm actually claiming for stuff that I need and not frivolously just gaming and living off of the system it's those who take the **** and claim when they shouldn't that get to me and those who quite clearly on benefits complaining they don't get enough when they're paying subscription for TV and they're walking around with iphones and fancy cars when they clearly can't afford it.

 

[arknor]

I totally agree that people who are on job seekers should work whilst claiming, however, we found out that if you are claiming you are not allowed to do any voluntary work otherwise they will stop your money as they say you have to be available for an interview at all times ??? Surely not being able to do volunteer work stops you from getting some work experience. Seems stupid to me

volunteer work doing what exactly? working for tesco so they don't have to employ someone on a zero hour minimum wage contract ?

street cleaning and litter picking so the councils don't have to pay someone a proper wage? it's a slippery slope towards slavery for anyone born into poverty or anyone that struggles to find a job like poor older people who could have worked all their life but not be old enough to retire and not seen as young enough for employment.

Probably end up with nice suicide rates amongst the 50+ poor people though that are just a burden to society which might help lower the pension pot if we are prepared to sacrifice some of our humanity

 

[marc2003]

I totally agree that people who are on job seekers should work whilst claiming, however, we found out that if you are claiming you are not allowed to do any voluntary work otherwise they will stop your money as they say you have to be available for an interview at all times ??? Surely not being able to do volunteer work stops you from getting some work experience. Seems stupid to me

incorrect. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/264508/dwp1023.pdf

 

[balky12]

volunteer work doing what exactly? working for tesco so they don't have to employ someone on a zero hour minimum wage contract ?

street cleaning and litter picking so the councils don't have to pay someone a proper wage? it's a slippery slope towards slavery for anyone born into poverty

Not quite? You are doing 'volunteer work' for your JSA?

Small gulf between earning money whilst you look for something more concrete and hopefully permanent, and slavery.