Upcoming games to support Mantle

Ayahuasca · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:45

shankly1985 said:
Making nothing up, I have reported this on here and has other who used Mantle. That it does smoother out the frame rate change.

Yet there's others who say the exact opposite that there's no difference. The only ones I've seen say it makes a difference are guess who? The die hard AMD fans

I think I'll take opinions from the non biased folk thank you.

humbug · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:46

Gregster said:
Ease up Humbug please. I asked in several servers and that is the feedback I got. Maybe they are having PEBKAC, I don't know but I still can't see where you are getting Mantle has frame smoothing (something you compared to G-Sync when I mentioned it).

For the record, I didn't tell them anything and asked.

I'm offering to help, no need for me to ease up and no need for you to suggest it, your misreading my offer of help; for.... well i have no idea what. its all good.

What i said was Mantle also has a Frame Smoothing effect, which it does as it renders far more consistent Frame Rates and has far less Frame Drops.

I didn't compare it to G-Sync, your miss reading that again.

Rroff said:
Care to elaborate a bit more on this? I know quite a few people have serious memory management issues with Mantle in BF4 that results in them going back to DX for any serious play but I've not looked into in in any depth.

Poor Memory Management in the Frost Bite 3 engine with high textures, a lot of time, tho not always; it fails to flush old textures from the memory when its supposed to, which can cause a stack overflow resulting in stuttering on 2GB cards, sometimes even 3GB cards running higher res. i had this problem with my old 2GB card and seen a lot of others with it, the way to fix it is to set lower Textures in the GFX settings.

Martini1991 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:46

I was just reading and about to jump down your throat about Ubisoft.
It's hilarious that you weren't pulled up though, that just shows how many people either don't read properly, or don't actually know anything about the games!

And BF4 does have VRAM management problem, lowering your IQ to combat it doesn't change that fact, people on 2GB 7850's can't run the same IQ Mantle to DX11 at 1080p in Multiplayer sustained.

Rroff · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:46

layte said:
Haha I'm an idiot.

God knows how I got those confused.

I can't really see games from either publisher having Mantle any time soon, Activision games have been using gameworks stuff in recent titles (Destiny, COD: Ghosts, etc.) and traditionally been more in bed with nVidia but who knows.

ubersonic · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:48

Ayahuasca said:
Yet there's others who say the exact opposite that there's no difference. The only ones I've seen say it makes a difference are guess who? The die hard AMD fans

I think I'll take opinions from the non biased folk thank you.

Personally I don't actually understand how people are noticing 0.01 second frame time differences when playing a first person shooter at 60+ FPS. Would people even have noticed this without charts like the ones above?

shankly1985 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:49

Ayahuasca said:
Yet there's others who say the exact opposite that there's no difference. The only ones I've seen say it makes a difference are guess who? The die hard AMD fans

I think I'll take opinions from the non biased folk thank you.

There you go, Having the frame rate unlocked on BF4 when using Mantle you cant even tell when it drops off. it just keeps feeling smooth. Now when using DirectX you get a slow down effect when the frame rate does drop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ODdPlLHOI

Ayahuasca · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:49

ubersonic said:
Personally I don't actually understand how people are noticing 0.01 second frame time differences when playing a first person shooter at 60+ FPS. Would people even have noticed this without charts like the ones above?

Not a chance, it's placebo effect, they're seeing what they want to see.

Ayahuasca · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:50

shankly1985 said:
There you go, Having the frame rate unlocked on BF4 when using Mantle you cant even tell when it drops off. it just keeps feeling smooth. Now when using DirectX you get a slow down effect when the frame rate does drop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ODdPlLHOI

5* video fella on a shaky camera and 30fps youtube video. Besides it appears to run no smoother than the game does on my 780 so I don't really see your point?

shankly1985 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:50

ubersonic said:
Personally I don't actually understand how people are noticing 0.01 second frame time differences when playing a first person shooter at 60+ FPS. Would people even have noticed this without charts like the ones above?

I notice it, playing at 100+ fps and the frame rate changes using DirectX you get a slow down effect. On Mantle this doesn't happen.

layte · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:50

Martini1991 said:
I was just reading and about to jump down your throat about Ubisoft.
It's hilarious that you weren't pulled up though, that just shows how many people either don't read properly, or don't actually know anything about the games!

Complete and utter brain fail on my part. lol

No problem putting my hands up when I'm that wrong I should be looking out for the special bus.

shankly1985 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:50

Ayahuasca said:
5* video fella on a shaky camera and 30fps youtube video.

Yeah because thats the only way to record Mantle while using Crossfire. :rolleyes:

Martini1991 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:51

shankly1985 said:
Yeah because thats the only way to record Mantle while using Crossfire.

That doesn't make his point irrelevant, and it's massive, if anything, it means you can't show him properly.

Ayahuasca · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:51

shankly1985 said:
Yeah because thats the only way to record Mantle while using Crossfire.

but it doesn't show it to be any smoother than it is on a similar nvidia setup?

PhysicsMan94 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:52

Rroff said:
Care to elaborate a bit more on this? I know quite a few people have serious memory management issues with Mantle in BF4 that results in them going back to DX for any serious play but I've not looked into in in any depth.

Indeed, not sure how people can claim that there are no memory leak issues with Mantle-Frostbite. It is well known by now that graphics memory usage is not only higher than D3D 11 in Frostbite 3 powered games using Mantle, but there is also the issue of the memory usage increasing w.r.t. time (i.e. a memory leak problem).

Gregster · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:52

humbug said:
I'm offering to help, no need for me to ease up and no need for you to suggest it, your misreading my offer of help; for.... well i have no idea what. its all good.

What i said was Mantle also has a Frame Smoothing effect, which it does as it renders far more consistent Frame Rates and has far less Frame Drops.

I didn't compare it to G-Sync, your miss reading that again.

I don't actually know these people and was just something I was asking in game. Good of you to help but I am not sure I will see them again.

Now then, as for Mantle's memory leak, care to divulge on how to fix it? I can maybe pass that info on when in game next time

Martini1991 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:52

layte said:
Complete and utter brain fail on my part. lol

No problem putting my hands up when I'm that wrong I should be looking out for the special bus.

Indeed, I applaud your "taking it on the chin" attitude, it still doesn't detract that no one pulled you up on it, which is far more hilarious than your mistake.

shankly1985 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:53

Ayahuasca said:
but it doesn't show it to be any smoother than it is on a similar nvidia setup?

Look bottom left and the performance graph. lol Go record some gameplay yourself and post back your Graph.

shankly1985 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:54

Gregster said:
I don't actually know these people and was just something I was asking in game. Good of you to help but I am not sure I will see them again.

Now then, as for Mantle's memory leak, care to divulge on how to fix it? I can maybe pass that info on when in game next time

Isn't the memory issue 7000 series only?

Rusty0611 · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:55

When I tried Mantle on my mates PC which I re-built for him (and although this was a while ago it was still after the usual AMD apparatchiks were saying Mantle was smoother) we ran his 290 PC alongside my 780 PC to make sure all was running smoothly after the rebuild.

AMDs Mantle was not perceivably different to nVidia's DX. Graphs can say what graphs say but the two were practically identical feeling. And I am senstive to input lag, latency issues, tearing, low FPS etc.

The mysterious smoothness that certain AMD users (conveniently the ones who are most vocal about the brand) say they get is IMO a myth or a result of a bad DX driver.

I'd love to compare again and do it more thoroughly but as I say I was doing a rebuild for him so was just making sure it was all alright.

Rroff · 9 Jul 2014 at 15:55

ubersonic said:
Personally I don't actually understand how people are noticing 0.01 second frame time differences when playing a first person shooter at 60+ FPS. Would people even have noticed this without charts like the ones above?

Depends more on the pattern of behaviour within the frame times for a whole second as to how noticeable something like that is. When there are uneven distributions in certain patterns even fairly small variations can be noticeable in other cases not so much.

EDIT: Also depends on the person's gaming experience - every day casual gamer will have fairly high tolerance - some won't even notice 100ms variations :| whereas someone who has spent a decade or more playing highly tuned FPS games will notice to some degree even down to millisecond differences.