workers rights

MassiveJim

MassiveJim

MassiveJim

Soldato
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Posts
2,938
workers' rights

Hi all,

I am wondering if anyone can fill in the gaps in my knowledge here.
My GF started work for a small café locally at the end of March this year.

She told the owner 2 weeks ago that she was 12 weeks pregnant and ever since then her attitude has completely changed towards my GF,

right at the start of her employment my GF took 3 days of sick on 2 separate occasions and then nothing until a single day off last week (morning sickness)

the first instance of her boss changing attitude happened a few days after this, My GF turned up for work and was asked to attend a disciplinary meeting the following day (her day off) to which she declined as it was her day off, so the owner did it there and then in a store room with no witnesses. she told my GF that she could sack her but she was giving her one last chance and if she took another day off sick she would sack her.
she claimed that the girlfriend had taken 6 days off total all non-pregnancy related, 1 of these days she had not taken off she had in fact been asked by another member of staff if they could cover the shift to which she agreed.
Owner said you can resign if you want. She had another member of staff waiting on standby and requested that my GF take the day off to think about it. so she did not work and was unpaid for that day.
No prior warnings about attendance.
She is supposed to be attending a proper meeting with the owner but that hasn't happened yet.
next instance - gf wakes up Tuesday feeling terrible (really bad morning sickness) lets owner know won't be in because of morning sickness and suspected water infection. goes to doctors, no water infection just really bad morning sickness, calls work afterwards, owner says I have covered your shifts today and tomorrow as water infections are highly contagious. (which isn't true but beside the point) GF explains she doesn't have water infection the test came back clear, owner changes story well I want you rested up I have today and tomorrow covered now and I can't get cover for Friday (GFs next shift)

GF then requests a single day off unpaid so as not to use holiday entitlement, owner refuses, whilst having swapped peoples shifts around to give another experienced staff member a day off she wanted
next item
GF requests a week's holiday in august, owner declines claiming "you won't have accrued enough holiday to take a week off by then" I sat and worked it out for her, she will have accrued enough
GF goes back to owner and explains my workings out
owner comes back with
can't let you take holiday that week as the 6 week school holiday is our busiest period and we can't afford to have 2 experienced staff off at same time
for arguments sake we will call them weeks 1 2 and 3
experienced staff members = 3
so week 1, experienced staff 1 on hols
week 2 nothing on holiday calendar at work but owner claiming experienced staff 2 is off few days and owner off for a couple of days
week 3 experienced staff 2 is off



I am trying to look at this objectively from the owners POV as well as GFs.
GF could be seen to be a "trouble" staff member as had a few days off sick and is now pregnant which is a PITA for a small business
on the flip side she has to treat people correctly and can't behave like this especially to someone who is pregnant

I know if she had been there 2 years I would have a case here for constructive dismissal but as she has been there 3 months I do not know her rights, I am kind of under the impression she has almost none (but does the pregnancy alter that)
I would rather avoid taking the hardline with this café owner as I do sympathise with a small business but I also don't want he taking the mick out of us.


My main concern here is the health of my unborn child, this is stressing the GF out and I seem to be spending a lot of time diffusing her mood at the moment which is no good for baby as far as I am concerned

We really can't afford for her to just walk out on the job as that means her income for the next 4/5 months will be reduced and on principal I don't want this café owner to "win"
GF is very hard working and very friendly, customers generally like her wherever she works and she knows how to treat people and make them repeat customers.


TL: DR - GF announces she is preggers to boss, boss turns into mega-*****
What are her rights ?

Thanks for reading :)
 
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To the boss it probably looks like your GF knew she was pregnant when interviewed for the job but did not mention it as your GF wanted the maternity leave and maternity pay.

Was she pregnant at the time of interview and did she disclose it? i don't think you'll be honest here, but the dates are very close.

Anyway, even if this was all above board the boss is probably pee'd off as she wanted a worker and only a short time in your GF will be going on maternity leave and she will be back to square one but unable to recruit someone else. It sounds like she is pushing for your GF to leave.
 
ivrytwr3 said:
To the boss it probably looks like your GF knew she was pregnant when interviewed for the job but did not mention it as your GF wanted the maternity leave and maternity pay.

Was she pregnant at the time of interview and did she disclose it? i don't think you'll be honest here, but the dates are very close.

Anyway, even if this was all above board the boss is probably pee'd off as she wanted a worker and only a short time in your GF will be going on maternity leave and she will be back to square one but unable to recruit someone else. It sounds like she is pushing for your GF to leave.
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This is without doubt what I think is happening.

GF found out not long after she started at the cafe, being dead honest here she didn't know when she took the job that she was pregnant.

She later took another job working in an off-license part time as well and told the guy up front,
bearing in mind we didn't tell anyone (apart from immediate close family) that she was pregnant until after the 12 week scan but the guy from the off-license was told (she is not a dishonest person to be fair)

owner of café is a woman for what it matters and has children of her own.

EDITED to make sense
 
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ivrytwr3 said:
To the boss it probably looks like your GF knew she was pregnant when interviewed for the job but did not mention it as your GF wanted the maternity leave and maternity pay.

Was she pregnant at the time of interview and did she disclose it? i don't think you'll be honest here, but the dates are very close.

Anyway, even if this was all above board the boss is probably pee'd off as she wanted a worker and only a short time in your GF will be going on maternity leave and she will be back to square one but unable to recruit someone else. It sounds like she is pushing for your GF to leave.
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thing is she's entitled to do this... I know a girl who did something similar - she was working as a contractor on a nice daily rate then decided to cut the contract short and take up a full time job at a bank - at face value it seemed a strange move as she'd be taking a bit of a hit in terms of pay - the reason of course is that she wouldn't earn maternity pay as a contractor so might as well get a salaried role for a short period of time if she wants a baby.
 
I'm sorry, but I can see how the owner of the business would be extremely ****ed off.

Essentially your girlfriend (no marriage?) has made someone pay for her decision, and if its a small business it's going to impact massively upon their financial situation.

You can see how people can be reluctant to hire certain demographics.


Don't get me wrong, if someone works hard for a company and has done a few years, then its a different kettle of fish entirely, and the company in my opinion has a social obligation.

But this timescale is just a **** take.
 
sports_brah said:
I'm sorry, but I can see how the owner of the business would be extremely ****ed off.

Essentially your girlfriend (no marriage?) has made someone pay for her decision, and if its a small business it's going to impact massively upon their financial situation.

You can see how people can be reluctant to hire certain demographics.


Don't get me wrong, if someone works hard for a company and has done a few years, then its a different kettle of fish entirely, and the company in my opinion has a social obligation.

But this timescale is just a **** take.
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Seconded
 
sports_brah said:
I'm sorry, but I can see how the owner of the business would be extremely ****ed off.

Essentially your girlfriend (no marriage?) has made someone pay for her decision, and if its a small business it's going to impact massively upon their financial situation.

You can see how people can be reluctant to hire certain demographics.


Don't get me wrong, if someone works hard for a company and has done a few years, then its a different kettle of fish entirely, and the company in my opinion has a social obligation.

But this timescale is just a **** take.
Click to expand...

I do see this side of the coin as well and I truly sympathise with the owner.
I do not want to wage all out war with her either. I just want my GF to be treated fairly.

I do have a question for you, what relevance has marriage got in this argument ?
We are not married no, else I would have said my wife.
 
If I was the owner I would also be pretty annoyed in this situation as even if she did not know the owner wont be thinking that.
 
sports_brah said:
I'm sorry, but I can see how the owner of the business would be extremely ****ed off.

Essentially your girlfriend (no marriage?) has made someone pay for her decision, and if its a small business it's going to impact massively upon their financial situation.

You can see how people can be reluctant to hire certain demographics.


Don't get me wrong, if someone works hard for a company and has done a few years, then its a different kettle of fish entirely, and the company in my opinion has a social obligation.

But this timescale is just a **** take.
Click to expand...


Wow what a total **** you are! You can't ask people when interviews if they are pregnant, maternity rights are absolute and cannot be interfered with
 
can you claim maternaty leave within this short period of time against a small business?
id have thought you'd need to have worked for 12+ months at least
 
MassiveJim said:
I do see this side of the coin as well and I truly sympathise with the owner.
I do not want to wage all out war with her either. I just want my GF to be treated fairly.

I do have a question for you, what relevance has marriage got in this argument ?
We are not married no, else I would have said my wife.
Click to expand...

Fairly I'd say, after 3 months service would be apologise to the owner and walk away.

The owner as a nice gesture should bung her a couple of weeks pay extra and some family planning advice.

Big business this is just a slight annoyance a local cafe it's a nightmare.

Now I'd hope the owner would be flexible and if your gf can get someone to stand in for her for a month or 2 or if they are big enough maybe agree to be flexible and get agency cover for 2 months
 
MrMoonX said:
Wow what a total **** you are! You can't ask people when interviews if they are pregnant, maternity rights are absolute and cannot be interfered with
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Seems like a reasonable question, it's not like illness that cannot be avoided or planned for. Perfectly reasonable question for a small business to ask where it will be of real impact.
 
edscdk said:
Fairly I'd say, after 3 months service would be apologise to the owner and walk away.

The owner as a nice gesture should bung her a couple of weeks pay extra and some family planning advice.

Big business this is just a slight annoyance a local cafe it's a nightmare.

Now I'd hope the owner would be flexible and if your gf can get someone to stand in for her for a month or 2 or if they are big enough maybe agree to be flexible and get agency cover for 2 months
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You know that the tax man covers the cost of maternity pay right? The only costs to the small business are in finding/hiring a temp contract replacement to cover her while she is off.

I can see that the owner would be annoyed, its very inconvenient and will cost her some money however it is also an accepted, well known fact of running a business that you WILL have to deal with these situations. Any business owner who employs staff should expect and plan for these eventualities, to not do so is inviting unknown risk to your livelihood.

EDIT: Relevant HMRC advice for employers:

https://www.gov.uk/employers-maternity-pay-leave/help-with-statutory-pay

For financial help with statutory pay, you can:

reclaim payments (usually 92%)
apply for an advance if you can’t afford payments
Click to expand...
 
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Pregnancy and maternity discrimination doesnt have a minimum service time as long as you were either not pregnant when you joined or told the employer that you were pregnant when you joined.
Her employer was required to perform a new risk assessment as soon as your GF told her that she is pregnant. Two things usually follow, either her role is amended to reduce risk or, where this isn't possible, your GF gets suspended on full pay for the duration.
Also, don't forget that our GF is entitled to reasonable paid time off for antenatal care.

The downside is that while it does appear that the boss is being at least a bit of a tool, proving it is....difficult. Tell your GF to keep records of all such goings on in work, especially that 'disciplinary' (which I would note in detail since it is actually utter BS) which appears to have been performed incorrectly and solely as a result of announcing the pregnancy.
 
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MrMoonX said:
Wow what a total **** you are! You can't ask people when interviews if they are pregnant, maternity rights are absolute and cannot be interfered with
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That is not the point though. The business owner will no doubt feel aggrieved that they have employed someone who was already in the early stages of pregnancy.

It is things like this that can cripple a small business.

I know numerous people that run small businesses and whilst it is not discussed openly, I know for a fact that women of a certain age are less likely to get a job with them due to this type of issue.

Now I work for a very large company at present. We are all being made redundant unless we get redeployed and we were told some time ago about our exit dates.

Guess what happened? The amount of the females that got pregnant was quite unbelievable. Three went on maternity in the last month just weeks before their exit date and you know why.
 
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