AMD Could Feature Next Generation HBM Memory on Volcanic Islands 2.0 Graphics Cards – Allegedly Laun

[humbug]

Edit ^^^ right.

Now I see what has happened here, when I originally said...


I was referring to these two chips listed in the image that Orangey posted up, not everything that AMD have ever made, as that really would be bizarre.
the 'as well as everything else' was a quip about the way AMD like to get others to do the work for them.

Now if you thought I meant everything AMD has ever designed then reread what I said and if I was meaning everything then why didn't I use ever instead of even.

Anyway I am still disappointed about it, and Humbug, before you it stood to reason that they did this there was a time when you didn't know, where you disappointed to find out ?

AMD, Intel, Nvidia.. design their own architecture, they don't necessarily to that without taking instruction for parts of that process from outside.

Designing semiconductor architectures these days is not something that can always be done in one environment, or even by humans.

Read what drunkenmaster said.

Its a bit like designing New York City, London, Berlin, Paris.... with all of its infrastructure.... a thousand times bigger! and then shrinking it to the size of your thumbnail, not possible entirley in one environment and all by humans.

 

[Orangey]

GTA V PC supposedly coming in Nov, possible tie-in with Never Settle / freshened-up GPU range?

 

[AlamoX]

GTA V PC supposedly coming in Nov, possible tie-in with Never Settle / freshened-up GPU range?

i dont see it at all, AMD isnt in need for an incentive to sell GPUs, already low prices, Mantle perk, and GTA will come right after freesync review samples.
thats a 100% pick from player if it's in never settle bundle, meaning, that AMD will have a lot of games previously bought hanging around even longer in the bundle, also means GTA 5 code will go out of stock fast, and AMD need to buy way more to keep it for couple months, so yea dont see GTA 5 ever coming to the bundle
beside rockstar doesnt need Bundle to boost sales, they can still sell it well while fully priced.

to go back to the topic AMD's new APU will feature HBM memory...that's a significant performance Boost

 

[bru]

Maybe a bundle tie with the new cards like they did with BF4.

 

[bru]

LTmatt maybe if you get a chance you could ask Richard Huddy on twitter if AMD do the GPU design in house?

To Humbug and DM, I understand what you are saying, and yes it is entirely possible that you are correct, doesn't stop me being disappointed that it happens this way though.
In fact maybe Disappointed was the wrong word to use, maybe surprised is more appropriate.

 

[Squink]

all thoze wordzz

Maybe this isn't the topic for you, then.

 

[Rofflay]

GTA V 120hz at this rate it will be £5 in steam sales before i get near it :|


I get really annoyed by the amount of cool tech out there that never gets used like HBM and Arm cores. They know we are struggling and need a gap closer because 4K 120hz on TN is going to be here with whatever refresh they do once DP 1.3 is final. So i guess by 2H 2015 we will be talking about thier next release with those connections on the rear.


They need to wipe out a generation minimum, Above playable would take four 290X on an average game from 2013.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

http://www.intc.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=690165

Intel commits €829 million (approximately $1.0 billion) to ASML's research and development programs to help accelerate deployment of new technologies for 450-millimeter (mm) wafers and extreme ultra-violet (EUV) lithography by as much as two years
Intel to also initially purchase 10 percent of pre-transaction issued shares of ASML for €1.7 billion (approximately $2.1 billion) and commit to purchase an additional 5 percent of post-transaction issued shares as part of ASML's program to enable minority investments of up to a 25 percent equity stake to its largest customers
R&D funding and equity investment agreements totaling €3.3 billion (approximately $4.1 billion)
Continued research and development in the field of lithography is critical to the long-term growth of the semiconductor industry

Intel suckors since they need ASML to go and help them " Accelerate Key Next-Generation Semiconductor Manufacturing Technologies" !



Honestly nobody cares whether companies outsource things,since it happens all the time.

 

[bru]

Honestly nobody cares whether companies outsource things,since it happens all the time.

This much has been made abundantly clear, by all the people caring enough to post the fact that they don't care.

 

[drunkenmaster]

FInd a single big company that doesn't outsource huge amounts of work. Intel goes between giving billions out to companies for R&D, to just buying other companies up who have done work they want to use rather than doing it themselves.

My parents have had some renovation work done, guess what, the builders they used, subcontracted half the work out to tilers, or plumbers, electricians.

A building company needs an electrician at times, but not for the whole job, either that electrician does loads of other work when electrical work isn't needed, or he works all the time on electrical stuff and only works for the builder when the builder needs it.

Who ends up the better electrician, the guy who works permanently for the builder and does some tiling, carpentry, plumbing and some electrical work.... or the guy who works as an electrician 100% of the time, and only works for the builder a few hours a week when required?

Specialised workers who come in when needed will 98% of the time do a better job than non specialised workers doing the same work.

There is almost no one out there not outsourcing work, the bigger the company the more stuff gets outsourced. A florists around the corner may outsource website production and management to a specialist rather than make a half arsed website themselves that they can't fix when it goes wrong.

People are unsurprisingly finding it odd you would suggest it disappointed you to know they outsourced work, when you probably can't name a company that doesn't do so, it's how business works.

 

[bru]

People are unsurprisingly finding it odd you would suggest it disappointed you to know they outsourced work, when you probably can't name a company that doesn't do so, it's how business works.

I wouldn't be surprised at all that people are finding it odd that you seem to suggest that I'm disappointed to know they outsourced work, when in fact I said I was disappointed that they outsource the design of the GPU itself.

I know they outsource work, as we know for example they use TSMC, but I was and still am disappointed, or as I said earlier maybe surprised is a more appropriate word to use, to find that they may not even design the chips themselves.

As for naming companies that don't outsource work, don't be ridiculous, I could say my wife's card making company or my brothers Driving instructor, but you would just come back with something stupid like the internet isn't my wifes, or my brother doesn't drill, collect and refine his own petrol.
It is ridiculous to suggest that companies never out source anything, which is why I said the design of the GPU.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This much has been made abundantly clear, by all the people caring enough to post the fact that they don't care.

Because you seem to care a lot though,so maybe we are educating you on the fact that many of the companies whose products you use like Intel have spent billions on outsourcing R and D to other companies. So instead of deflecting,accept that is the way things go in the industry instead of digging yourself deeper into a hole,and spreading more stuff around.

Plus people reading this thread should also be made aware of how much outsourcing even companies like Intel do themselves,instead of it being hidden away,just to make outsourcing from one company seem "OMFG! Its terribad!".

So,maybe you should express dissapointment that Intel does not do all of its R and D in house either to over $4 billion alone with ASML. But you won't,will you??

Neither does Nvidia either,since they are using derivatives of ARM cores in their Tegra lineup. They don't design most of the cores they use,but require ARM to.

You know this very well,but conviniently ignore it on purpose.

You must feel dissapointed ALL the time with any of the tech you use.

Things like cameras for example,have loads of parts outsourced to other companies for design - lenses,sensors,electronics. Nikon got Sanyo to design and build many of its own compacts for example.

Look at many computer cases for example? They are designed by a select few OEMs.

PSUs are more of the same.

As long as the end products work fine and do the what they need to,does it matter who designs them?? If it makes finanical and time to market sense for Intel and AMD to outsource R and D to other companies,then be it. I don't think it should make any difference to perceptions of any product.

 

[Gregster]

Points made guys. Move on please

 

[bru]

Intel's R&D has nothing to do with it, I was surprised to find out that AMD do not design their own chips (well these two anyway) now I Assumed that meant the entire chip, but everyone here keeps telling me that outsourcing isn't anything new, which I am not disagreeing with.

So if AMD do in fact get somebody else to entirely design their chips, would that surprise you? because that is the way I took the original article.

Said article still hasn't actually been proven to be accurate. and even LTmatt first comment was to question whether it was true or not.

 

[meldarthx]

Intel's R&D has nothing to do with it, I was surprised to find out that AMD do not design their own chips (well these two anyway) now I Assumed that meant the entire chip, but everyone here keeps telling me that outsourcing isn't anything new, which I am not disagreeing with.

So if AMD do in fact get somebody else to entirely design their chips, would that surprise you? because that is the way I took the original article.

Said article still hasn't actually been proven to be accurate. and even LTmatt first comment was to question whether it was true or not.

Bru most of this isn't design; AMD would do the design; this is the lay out and setting for taping of the design.......there is a world of difference; if you can't see that.....and the fact that everyone in the industry does this.

They take their designs; usually outsource to the tape outs; get the maskings back and run them.....if there are issues they set up to do a respin; again taking their designs to be relayed out to fix the issues with the first taping outs......etc.....

You are mis undestanding what's happening here and trying to make a mountain out of not even a mole hill....I hope this clears up the misunderstandings.....

 

[David Bisset]

edit: meldarthx covered what I was going to say, not sure how I missed his post!

A quote from synapse:

Our engineers have extensive expertise in taking design specs and building complete products

No suggestion they are doing the design work at all

 

[bru]

Bru most of this isn't design; AMD would do the design; this is the lay out and setting for taping of the design.......there is a world of difference; if you can't see that.....and the fact that everyone in the industry does this.

They take their designs; usually outsource to the tape outs; get the maskings back and run them.....if there are issues they set up to do a respin; again taking their designs to be relayed out to fix the issues with the first taping outs......etc.....

You are mis undestanding what's happening here and trying to make a mountain out of not even a mole hill....I hope this clears up the misunderstandings.....

I now know (as it has been pointed out lots of times) that I possibly misunderstood the original article, what has rather peeved me off, is the way that it was suggested that AMD do not design their own GPU's and immediately certain people posted up that its only certain aspects that get outsourced and not the whole design, not to mention that I'm obviously stupid to think such a thing.
It surprised me that a product like an AMD GPU would be designed out side of AMD.
What didn't surprise me was the swath of ' how dare you suggest something negative of AMD' so well cover it up by saying its industry stand practice.


Just the same as you have all interpreted what I meant I am interpreting what you all meant.

 

[David Bisset]

People posted up that parts of the process are outsourced. There has been no sign at all that any part of the design isn't done in-house by AMD. Yes, outsourcing is common and even design work could be outsourced, but the linked information talks about taping out a process only - no mention in any form of helping come up with the design. Which is why people are commenting, over and over, explaining that everyone gets help at these stages but that it isn't the same as someone else designing the GPU.

Edit: Some people did post much more vague responses that made no such distinction, with random analogies that don't make it clear how they associate with any collaboration that may have been involved here (e.g. what phase of work the other company was involved in). I'm not nearly close enough to the GPU industry to know if AMD, nVidia, Intel or others get significant external help in initially designing their chips so I'm not saying it does or doesn't happen - just that the information linked in this thread doesn't talk about that at all.

 

[bru]

Designing is what the people at Synapse do. Which is why I initially thought that AMD outsourced the GPU design.

But you are quite right there has been no sign that any of this has anything to do with AMD at all, just because they are listed as one of the Synapses clients on the page that just shows a sample of their clients.
It is entirely possible that it really has nothing to do with AMD at all.

 

[David Bisset]

Synapse are a company who do numerous things, tape out being one of them. They also provide engineering services where you can effectively augment your own engineering staff with what amounts to contract help - where it would still be AMD doing the design but with some of the team being 'borrowed' from Synapse. We know nothing about the details of any deals between them and AMD though so can't tell if it's just the tapeout or what.

Edit: Removed paragraph about HBM, thought the memory for HBM was developed externally to AMD, corrected by drunkenmaster - knew they partnered but was unaware of level of AMD experience with it.