Stupid question, pretty sure I know the answer but ......

SexyGreyFox · 19 Jul 2014 at 18:31

At this point the product is irrelevant.

Last week I met a bloke in a shop who was having something repaired and when he walked out the shop the owner said 'I don't know what he expects me to do, I've sent off for parts but there's no guarantee they will work' so I took this as the product was out of guarantee.
On Wednesday I coincidentally bumped into him at my daughters graduation and it turns out the product is 8 months old but the company who make it have gone bust and no longer trade.
I obviously told him that he has full rights and the shop owner has to sort it out whether he fixes the the product, replaces it with something else (plus money difference either way) or he gives a full refund.

He's ringing me tomorrow but am I right or is there some sellers clause?

Castiel · 19 Jul 2014 at 18:36

As far as I am aware, the seller is directly responsible to the customer for the length of any supplied guarantee.

Mynight · 19 Jul 2014 at 18:39

If it was paid by credit card and over £100 he might be able to get the money back;

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

Edit: would appear the shop is liable for repair/replacement.

DJ_Bucho · 19 Jul 2014 at 18:54

It's is broken, or gone wrong in less than a year he should be able to get a replacement or his money back

Surveyor · 19 Jul 2014 at 19:32

The shop owner also has rights and beyond six months it's up to the purchaser to prove that the problem was there when they received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.

They may need to prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage they caused and that the product should have lasted longer than it did.

They may need an expert's report from an engineer or a mechanic for example.

If it came to offering a refund then the shop owner doesn't have to refund the full purchase price.

They can make a partial refund based on the 8 months use that have been had out of the product.

SexyGreyFox · 19 Jul 2014 at 19:39

4 replies and all different - seems it wasn't a stupid question

Surveyor · 19 Jul 2014 at 19:44

A quick guide to the Sale of Goods Act.

Castiel · 19 Jul 2014 at 19:48

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

Also I've just been told by a friend of mine (compliance director) that if the item was sold with a guarantee, then the retailer is obliged to fulfil the terms of that guarantee, even if the supplier or manufacturer no longer trades.

SexyGreyFox · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:02

Castiel said:
https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

You must repair or replace an item if a customer returns it within 6 months - unless you can prove it wasn’t faulty when they bought it.

You can ask a customer to prove an item was faulty when they bought it if they ask for a repair or replacement after 6 months.

What if it develops a fault at 8 months?

Both yours and Surveyors links aren't really providing an answer.
Surveyors link suggests the seller can refuse so the buyer gets it repaired elsewhere and then tries to claim it back from the seller.

Castiel · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:05

Dimple said:
You must repair or replace an item if a customer returns it within 6 months - unless you can prove it wasn’t faulty when they bought it.

You can ask a customer to prove an item was faulty when they bought it if they ask for a repair or replacement after 6 months.

What if it develops a fault at 8 months?

Both yours and Surveyors links aren't really providing an answer.
Surveyors link suggests the seller can refuse so the buyer gets it repaired elsewhere and then tries to claim it back from the seller.

Those apply whether there is a guarantee or not in place....if he has a guarantee then the retailer has an obligation to honour it.

Surveyor · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:07

Up to 6 months it's up to the retailer to prove the item wasn't faulty when purchased if they won't accept liability.

Beyond 6 months the burden of proof is reversed and the purchaser must prove it was faulty when purchased.

Many retailers won't make a purchaser prove their case and will accept liability for items older than 6 months.

The option is there though if a retailer wants the purchaser to prove their case.

Castiel · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:13

If the product was sold by the retailer with a specified guarantee (even if it is the standard manufactures guarantee) then they are obligated to it. EU regulations means that the guarantee is legally binding both on the Retailer and the Manufacturer. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 states that if a guarantee provider offers a guarantee on goods sold or supplied to consumers, the provider takes on a contractual obligation to honour the conditions set out in the guarantee. For example, if the guarantee provider refuses to repair goods as set out under the terms of the guarantee. The retailer as well as the manufacturer or supplier to the retailer is considered to be the provider to the consumer.

Effectively if the retailer sold the item stating it had a 12 month guarantee, then they are obligated under the terms of that guarantee. In any case the OP is protected under SOGA as the specific fault (as in it doesn't work) doesn't necessarily have to have been there at purchase, it simply has to meet reasonable usage, so depending on the item would depend upon what would be considered reasonable when deciding how long an item should operate without developing a fault under normal use.

Surveyor · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:21

The guarantee is that the product is free from manufacturing defects and is fit for purpose.

To return an item as faulty then the defect has to have been present when the item was purchased and up to 6 months that's presumed to be the case.

Beyond 6 months the purchaser can be asked to prove it.

Castiel · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:31

Surveyor said:
The guarantee is that the product is free from manufacturing defects and is fit for purpose.

To return an item as faulty then the defect has to have been present when the item was purchased and up to 6 months that's presumed to be the case.

Beyond 6 months the purchaser can be asked to prove it.

And depending on the item it would be pretty simple to prove that the product should be fit for purpose by not developing a fault through normal reasonable usage during a reasonable time...i.e. Within the supplied guarantee...(6 years is the limit in England and Wales)

Your contract is with the retailer, if the supplier goes out of business the retailer is still obligated to the customer. If the goods supplied by the retailer came with a specified guarantee, the retailer is obligated by the terms of that guarantee.

Surveyor · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:36

Castiel said:
And depending on the item it would be pretty simple to prove that the product should be fit for purpose by not developing a fault through normal reasonable usage during a reasonable time...i.e. Within the supplied guarantee...(6 years is the limit in England and Wales)

It's not just a case of proving the product has a fault.

The burden is for the purchaser to to prove that the problem was there when they received the goods even if it has taken 8 months (in this case) to come to light.

Castiel · 19 Jul 2014 at 20:40

Surveyor said:
It's not just a case of proving the product has a fault.

The burden is for the purchaser to to prove that the problem was there when they received the goods even if it has taken 8 months (in this case) to come to light.

Fit for Purpose. This means (amongst other things) that an item should not develop a fault within a reasonable length of time.

In any case, the retailer is still obligated if there is a specific guarantee supplied with the goods...we are not sure whether there was such a guarantee (it matter not who ultimately supplied the guarantee, be it the retailer, insurers, supplier or manufacturer) as the contract is between The Customer and The Retailer.