The art of debating

elmarko

elmarko

elmarko

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Joined
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Portsmouth (Southsea)
So, having noticed reading the odd comments section on websites, social media feeds & in general conversation. I can't help but notice how much better (on a average) people are able to formulate arguments on here.

Obviously this has nothing to do with if the individual actually agrees with me or not (I've read plenty of well thought out & compelling arguments from the other side) more the ability to present a view which is rational & logically consistent.

Do people underestimate the importance of debating as a skill?, have you all also noticed how shocking poor most people's skill is at this art?.
 
I don't think they underestimate. I don't think they even understand logical reasoning, consistency and rationality. It seems a lot of people are under the illusion that they think something, therefore it becomes truth.

Someone here only the other day strongly displayed the fact that they don't understand the concept of informed/valid opinions, which is part of the problem. Their argument was essentially that people can think anything they want and it's considered a valid opinion.

Additionally to that, I've have 2 members on these very forums who upon losing an argument/debate have sent me trust messages threatening to follow me around the forum reporting all my posts in the hope that they get me banned. It shows who the rational ones are there doesn't it? :p
 
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spoffle said:
I don't think they underestimate. I don't think they even understand logical reasoning, consistency and rationality. It seems a lot of people are under the illusion that they think something, therefore it becomes truth.

Someone here only the other day strongly displayed the fact that they don't understand the concept of informed/valid opinions, which is part of the problem. Their argument was essentially that people can think anything they want and it's considered a valid opinion.

Additionally to that, I've have 2 members on these very forums who upon losing an argument/debate have sent me trust messages threatening to follow me around the forum reporting all my posts in the hope that they get me banned. It shows who the rational ones are there doesn't it? :p
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I just know where you live....in fact I know where you ALL live....just remember that next time you think, quite erroneously, that you are right and I am not.










:p
 
elmarko said:
So, having noticed reading the odd comments section on websites, social media feeds & in general conversation. I can't help but notice how much better (on a average) people are able to formulate arguments on here.
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I don't frequent other forums, but going by some of the posters here, some are frightfully boorish when their argument are found wanting.;)

Truth is, I only stay here because of people like you, where we can have a good old chinwag about things that don't really matter too much to most people without it all getting adversarial. Shame that cannot be said for everyone.
 
I think the level of 'debate' in here is downright terrible!

The vast majority of the time it involves an armchair expert picking a view point and arguing it vindictively and in an overly aggressive manner (which really is quite unpleasant). This follows with the usual google race to back up opinions, which is particularly laughable when this is done after the view point has been established. Perhaps the most laughable aspect is the idea that having the last say wins and that not responding is some sort of concession of defeat from the silent opponent.

I've slowly learnt to not bother because it's a complete waste of my time. This is particularly painful when it comes to subjects that I do know a lot about. Some of the things that supposedly well regarded posters come out with.

Here's my suggestions to those that enjoy a good debate on OcUK:

1) calm down.
2) calm down.
3) accept that researching something on the web doesn't provide reliable information (Wikipedia is wrong all the time)
3) don't research something with the intention of adding evidence to a point you have already made. If you are doing this, why did you make the point in the first place?
4) you are not entitled to argue vindictively unless you are genuinely clued up on the subject matter.

In summary there is nothing wrong with a fun disagreement, but please, don't be so unpleasant about it.
 
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I think your main problem Castiel is your incredibly low ratio of relevant to superfluous words. You are the king of tangents. Your work emails must be a nightmare.
 
Participant said:
I think your main problem Castiel is your incredibly low ratio of relevant to superfluous words. You are the king of tangents. Your work emails must be a nightmare.
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:rolleyes:

"In summary there is nothing wrong with a fun disagreement, but please, don't be so unpleasant about it."

Nitefly 2014.
 
Yeah I think there should be something on this in schools - even if only brief, peeps should know it's important to make a clear case for something that has merit.

Something I've learnt in software development - you can be the smartest guy in the room, but if you can't convince the decision maker your idea is worth doing, that idea is worth nothing.
 
Nitefly said:
I think the level of 'debate' in here is downright terrible!

The vast majority of the time it involves an armchair expert picking a view point and arguing it vindictively and in an overly aggressive manner (which really is quite unpleasant). This follows with the usual google race to back up opinions, which is particularly laughable when this is done after the view point has been established. Perhaps the most laughable aspect is the idea that having the last say wins and that not responding is some sort of concession of defeat from the silent opponent.

I've slowly learnt to not bother because it's a complete waste of my time. This is particularly painful when it comes to subjects that I do know a lot about. Some of the things that supposedly well regarded posters come out with.

Here's my suggestions to those that enjoy a good debate on OcUK:

1) calm down.
2) calm down.
3) accept that researching something on the web doesn't provide reliable information (Wikipedia is wrong all the time)
3) don't research something with the intention of adding evidence to a point you have already made. If you are doing this, why did you make the point in the first place?
4) you are not entitled to argue vindictively unless you are genuinely clued up on the subject matter.

In summary there is nothing wrong with a fun disagreement, but please, don't be so unpleasant about it.
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Breath, put down the iPad and go outside, let the other guy sit in front off the computer waits for your reply that will never come while you are getting on with your life.

:)
 
Castiel said:
I don't frequent other forums, but going by some of the posters here, some are frightfully boorish when their argument are found wanting.;)

Truth is, I only stay here because of people like you, where we can have a good old chinwag about things that don't really matter too much to most people without it all getting adversarial. Shame that cannot be said for everyone.
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Hehe, indeed.

It's half the reason I stay too!.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that the standard on here is particularly high for a forum - but the average forum poster is usually significantly more experienced than the average person. Disagreement & the challenging of beliefs is not only character building but vital to re - examining existing beliefs & potentially changing them. It's a shame how under valued this skill really is.
 
The problem is that almost all of the dreadfuls who post here don't want a debate on their views, myself included. I am quite happy - like 98% of GD - to come to my own conclusions on a subject I know literally nothing about, based on frankly preposterously low levels of 'research' (wiki or RussiaToday) but by God I will go chicken oriental if you dare question my beliefs because how dare you, and the more you intelligently probe and offer other viewpoints the further I will back into my entrenched views which have now solidified from mere opinion to cold, hard facts.

If I don't like your reasonableness - and I never do, it's infuriating, who do you think you are anyway, Mr I Got a Third in an Arts degree - then I will become petulant and antagonistic, moving the debate, such as it is, on to a more personal battleground. I will then make misguided attacks on you or your friends or family based on almost nothing and will stay away from the original debate points as much as possible which will try even your patience. Finally, the last of your tolerance spent and drowning in a sea of sarcasm and terrible put downs, you will concede and I will have won because I broke you, I won the argument and I will then be so pleased with myself I will do it in the next thread I see and this, friends, is why GD is amazing.
 
[FnG]magnolia;26647988 said:
The problem is that almost all of the dreadfuls who post here don't want a debate on their views, myself included. I am quite happy - like 98% of GD - to come to my own conclusions on a subject I know literally nothing about, based on frankly preposterously low levels of 'research' (wiki or RussiaToday) but by God I will go chicken oriental if you dare question my beliefs because how dare you, and the more you intelligently probe and offer other viewpoints the further I will back into my entrenched views which have now solidified from mere opinion to cold, hard facts.

If I don't like your reasonableness - and I never do, it's infuriating, who do you think you are anyway, Mr I Got a Third in an Arts degree - then I will become petulant and antagonistic, moving the debate, such as it is, on to a more personal battleground. I will then make misguided attacks on you or your friends or family based on almost nothing and will stay away from the original debate points as much as possible which will try even your patience. Finally, the last of your tolerance spent and drowning in a sea of sarcasm and terrible put downs, you will concede and I will have won because I broke you, I won the argument and I will then be so pleased with myself I will do it in the next thread I see and this, friends, is why GD is amazing.
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:eek:

:D
 
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