Not pictured: Any rockets.
Voice your opposition to the Israeli actions for the past 65+ years
- Thread starter LockyOK
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The majority of Qassam rockets simply do not have the range, averaging about 6 miles or so, with many not having that. And no one disputes that some are fired from civilian areas, given that Gaza has a high population density, particularly in the areas closest to Sdarot it is obvious that rockets will be fired from civilian areas...Hamas doesn't have a conventional army or infrastructure after all...its asymmetric warfare we are talking about here. However this doesn't negate the point I made that a majority of the attacks come from within the underground tunnel infrastructure that Israel are now attempting to target and root out...this is why they are there after all...unless you are suggesting the Israelis are lying and there are there for other reasons?
And again, no one said that caches are not found in civilian building either, only that the majority of them are reported to be within this tunnel network, as reported again by the Israeli Authorities as the reason for there ground offensive.
The vast majority of Qassam rockets and their launchers are the barely size of a stepladder, not the size of a bus. Many are barely 5kg in weight and even the largest are fired from single mobile folding platforms that can fit into the boot of a car, or even carried on a push bike.
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The two situations are completely different but I think you know that. That nature of attacks, the mixed sectarian nature of Northern Ireland, the history of the conflict. Making direct comparisons is pretty much impossible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpur_War_Crimes_Commission
Good thing you just have to click on the link if you want to read it, and don't have to fly Malaysia Airlines, which is experiencing so much bad luck isn't it?
Good thing you just have to click on the link if you want to read it, and don't have to fly Malaysia Airlines, which is experiencing so much bad luck isn't it?
The political and ideological situation may be different, but the comparison is valid as to way in which justifications are used to target civilians. It isn't a direct comparison to the actual conflicts, but a comparative narrative as to the nature of dealing with asymmetric warfare in densely populated areas and the direct comparison is regards the justification that it is ok to target civilian areas when attempting to root out an enemy force who has no military infrastructure, not the comparison of the IRA and Hamas.
But I expect you knew that and are just trying to obfuscate.
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I have no doubt that tunnels are used to move supplies and personnel, but it would be insane to launch from them. You would be inviting an attack on that point and destroying that section. Worse, you would be showing the Israeli's an open door to the rest of the tunnel. The tunnels in gaza have to be kept secret for them to provide any use whatsoever, plus their size is really not conducive to transporting missile systems, at least anything bigger than a qassam which is pretty much the definition of a fire and forget prayer shot.
However the supply tunnels, running from Egypt are a different story altogether and those are what i believed the army is after, and they would be large enough to transport a missile necessarily.
But the scale and nature of the conflict was completely different, I am sure we would have handled Northern Ireland differently if they were lobbing hundreds of rockets across the border on a regular basis.
We may as well ask why zoomee et al are getting so upset about Israel killing a few hundred Palestinians whilst they mutter not a peep about Assad killing tends of thousands of people. However when that was previously mentioned someone piped up that it was a completely different type of conflict in a completely different context and the comparison shouldn't be made...
Qassam is just the name given to the rockets in general, it encompasses the range if available missiles to Hamas and other militant groups...even the largest if which can be transported through even a relatively small tunnel system quickly and effectively.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...rael-forces-take-aim-at-hamas-terror-tunnels/
Also these tunnels run into hidden foxholes and out of hidden exits, hence why Israel are finding it difficult to combat them on the ground. The Israeli Military stated on Sky News that Hamas has effectively built an entire city network underground in Gaza.
Then why isn't Israeli forces concentrating at the Rafah Crossing. Given the the Egyptian Military has destroyed the majority of these tunnels in the last two years I think you need to check your facts.
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Call me a cynic but stuff like that is absolute gold dust for Hamas and must be one of their main motivating factors. So what if hardly any of their rockets get through and Isreali casualties at home are thus kept to a minimum? I don't think they're interested in killing Isrealis per se. They know exactly what the response will be and that as a result countless innocent Palsetinians will die, but the resulting backlash againt Israel is what it's all about.
Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of Israel and find what they're doing sickening and reprehensible.
As far as I can see the leadership on both sides are equally to blame and both deserve nothing but condemnation.
And again this has nothing to do with it, the comparison is still not about the conflicts themselves, but rather the justifications used to target civilians..even on a smaller scale there is outrage here if even a single civilian is injured in an operation against terrorism, investigations conducted, people punished if necessary...the scale and nature is different granted, but the justifications and outcomes of those justifications still bear a valid comparison, especially given the civilian collateral on both sides of the respective conflicts. If it were simply down to how many civilians died in each attack that justifies the use of force or not against further civilian populations then where does Israel stand in its use of force today?
It is a civil war, and there is significant political, economic and public pressure on Assad and the Rebels, which currently passes Israel by. And I think that is largely why some people are frankly astonished, that Israel can do what it does with very little in the way of real opposition while Hamas is barracked for its own part in the conflict. This even more underlined by, as you rightly point out, the opposition to Assad and now Russia.
You are right, both are to blame, about equality I'm not so sure...but both deserve condemnation and the international community really needs to set aside its guilty complex and stop this, by sanctions and force if necessary.
Has the nature of Israel's air strikes been discussed already?
I just find it a bit strange that they ring ahead to warn the residents of a building, then do the 'knock on the roof' warning shot, then finally demolish it. Surely in all this time, any (suspected) Hamas fighters would have vacated the premises? Is it just in the hope that the Hamas fighter(s) may have forgotten to take their rocket equipment with them and so for the cost of say 1 large block of flats, they have destroyed some weapons?
Effectively all they're doing is leveling homes and causing some collateral when neighboring buildings are damaged/destroyed and locals get caught in the explosion (unless I'm missing something?)
I just find it a bit strange that they ring ahead to warn the residents of a building, then do the 'knock on the roof' warning shot, then finally demolish it. Surely in all this time, any (suspected) Hamas fighters would have vacated the premises? Is it just in the hope that the Hamas fighter(s) may have forgotten to take their rocket equipment with them and so for the cost of say 1 large block of flats, they have destroyed some weapons?
Effectively all they're doing is leveling homes and causing some collateral when neighboring buildings are damaged/destroyed and locals get caught in the explosion (unless I'm missing something?)
thats if you ostensibly believe that the tunnels are the real reason for all of this, which it probably isn't. I dont think anyone, pro-Israeli or not, really thinks the IDF has decided to hit the tunnels now and that their action to reduce Hamas and Hamas' enthusiastic response is not linked to the recent murders of the Israeli kids and the Hamas/Fatah pact.
I said that is the reason the IDF and the Israeli Administration gave, not that I believe it to be the only or even main reason. Israeli politics is far too convoluted for that.
It does not alter the basic premise of my recent posts however or the tunnel network you are confusing with the supply tunnels that used to run into Egypt.
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they're going for the material not the fighters. they kill a fighter next day hes down as a civilian death. they destroy some weapons well thats one less bomb or missile exploding in a cafe full of their families as far as they're covered.