Foreign flags on official UK buildings?

[Mynight]

People get worked up way too much about flags. Would you care if it was a poster up in the window showing solidarity?

No not at all as its their choice. A local council in my opinion is there to represent the majority of its residents values be that in its policies towards education, roads, tax, amenities, etc not to show support of a side in a war where there is no official stance the UK is taking. Flags are somewhat of an official symbol a poster isn't really.

Apparently a lot of local councils have specific flag flying policies, and most have something to this effect...



If that's the case here, I don't see any problem with it.

I must admit I didn't know there was a lack of policy against it. So my views are somewhat unjustified now but I still feel its one thing to fly the flag of a national football team playing in the world cup and a whole other mess of supporting one side in a war.

 

[Freefaller]

Solidarity with whom?

I'm not Muslim or Jewish so don't have a side. I'm certainly not from the middle east. And both sides are as bad as each other.

But it is the Islamic state of Birmingham after all. Nice to see the council has blocked it.

As others have said our flag or flags for visiting dignitaries.

To something they believe in. I personally think "good on them" for being brave enough to make a statement. More so than many of our government offices seem to want to do.

I'd feel just as ambivalent had it been an Israeli flag - of course on a personal level I'd have been disappointed, but on purely the fact they are flying a flag on that I'd have been totally unphased by it.

Then again I don't really see the problem with people flying flags of other countries. Yes I know it's a local government building, but does it really make a difference? I guess they probably should be flying both the union flag as well as the other flag - but I really cannot get excited about this.

 

[Mynight]

That's a fair point.

I'd have started exactly the same thread if it had been the Israeli flag as well. It's not who's flag it is that bothers me only that it isn't "ours".

 

[Freefaller]

You don't care what they have authority to do it and that it's not in their remit?
I bet that wouldn't be the response, if it was something that affected you more. Even though the principle behind it, is identical.

What do you mean affected me more? I make no secret that I am pro-Palestine, but as stated had they made a statement and put an Israeli flag, whilst I personally would disagree with who they are supporting, I wouldn't care about the fact they're flying another flag. I just don't really feel this is a non issue.

Councils should not be doing or commenting on anything outside their specific remit.

I think councils should do what they feel is right, and I have no idea if this is outside their remit or not, but they are presumably an elected or appointed group of people with the ability to make decisions based on committees or votes.

It's good to see a council with some backbone. Sure, they may be picking the wrong side - depending on what your beliefs are, but at least they're making a stand for something they believe in, and that has to be lauded.

 

[Freefaller]

That's a fair point.

I'd have started exactly the same thread if it had been the Israeli flag as well. It's not who's flag it is that bothers me only that it isn't "ours".

And that's also completely fair - you're clearly much more nationalistic or even maybe patriotic than me and that is commendable (though some would argue against it as being dangerous and more of an ideology - but I don't).

That argument is perfectly valid - my point (not directed at you directly) is that we're wired up differently and see things and/or are affected by things in different ways.

 

[Mynight]

And that's also completely fair - you're clearly much more nationalistic or even maybe patriotic than me and that is commendable (though some would argue against it as being dangerous and more of an ideology - but I don't).

I will be honest and say I feel lucky to have been given great education/healthcare and opportunities to make a job for myself for free. To that extent I am patriotic (I don't want others to not have the same opportunity)but I'll be the last one in line to say a governments done a good job running the country.

That argument is perfectly valid - my point (not directed at you directly) is that we're wired up differently and see things and/or are affected by things in different ways.

Agreed if we all had the same views GD wouldn't be quite so interesting.

 

[KIA]

Also appears a few other councils have already raised the Palestinian flag. Namely Preston and tower hamlets.

Tower Hamlets is the only local authority where the Muslim population is the largest single religious group.

http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgsl...blic_sector_equality_duty/our_population.aspx

shock horror!

It's time to take control of the council buildings as well as the schools.

 

[Feef]

They are not voted in to do such things, again where does it say this in their remit. There's a million and one things not in their remit and not technically against the law, but you would have an issue with them interfering in everything which isn't technically illegal.

I would? Sure, if it was something which had an effect on me or someone else. Why would I possibly have an issue with them "interfering" in something which in no way affects me, or anyone else? It's a flag, there's nothing to stop them flying it, my agreeing with it or not is simply a non-issue.

A very brief google shows that other councils fly flags in support of, for example, LGBT rights. You may or may not agree with that, as may I, or anyone else, but there's nothing preventing them from doing it.

Edit/ Regarding "Where is it in their remit?", I was always under the impression that such displays or actions were permitted unless explicitly proscribed by something or other. As in, it's permitted, unless there's something stating that it isn't. Which in this case, there isn't.

 

[Glaucus]

No where have I said there's something to prevent them doing it. So I don't know why you keep banging on about that. I'm saying they shouldn't do anything outside their remit.

 

[Feef]

Is it within their remit to choose to fly a Union Jack/George's Cross/Local district flag? As I've seen many council buildings do that. If so, what's to prevent them from flying anything else?

Edit/ What if they decided to only fly a union flag, not an English one, or vice versa? Is that not equally making a political statement?

 

[Glaucus]

It's not within their remit, where in their remit does it say that can fly a foreign flag in support of political agenda.

It doesn't. It may not be illegal, but it certainly is not within their remit.
Specific remits like flying the union jack in support of a national sports team, is massively different to a political protest which certainly is not covered by any such rules.

Show me where in their long lists of rules, it specifically says they can do this and I'll "support" their choice, all though would want it to be removed. It is an abuse of power pure and simple, the fact it makes no real difference is neither here nor there. It is the principle.

 

[Tefal]

cheap vote/point scoring in major muslim areas...

 

[Feef]

Clarified my edit re: political agendas. I'm not sure whether or not it was within my old council's remit to put up banners across the front of their building in support of charities they decided to push. Point is, it made no difference to me, and I don't recall anyone pulling them up on supporting one organisation and not another, I don't see why this should be any different.

 

[Destination]

Only time I think its really suitable is if there is a major civilian disaster I don't think we should be showing solidarity with either side in a time of war especially one that is far from clear cut.

I think you open a book of condolance.
Flag for the state.
Flag for a saint on a saints day.
Flag for visiting countries dignitaries.
Whatever someone wants to fly from a flagpole in their own garden they should be allowed to.

Tnis is how i would solve the norn iron flag problem.
No flags anywhere except at your house, and in that case from a flag pole, with the flag raised at dawn and taken down at dusk.
Any flags flying overnight removed.

If people truely love their fleggegegeggg, as some claim to, then they should fly the bloody thing properly. I'd say most of them have no clue regarding the flying of a flag.

 

[wingman44115]

What if they wanted to fly a KKK Flag? would that be ok?

 

[Mynight]

Clarified my edit re: political agendas. I'm not sure whether or not it was within my old council's remit to put up banners across the front of their building in support of charities they decided to push. Point is, it made no difference to me, and I don't recall anyone pulling them up on supporting one organisation and not another, I don't see why this should be any different.

A charity is different to a warring nation. I do see your point but charities are somewhat vetted in the UK. Flying the flag of one nation in a war could alienate supporters of the other side living in the area. It could even go as far as to be said its supporting anti-semetic behaviour in the community. At least with a charity there's rarely people rallying against them.

(This is not me saying I am pro Israel)

 

[Xordium]

Funny how a few people have gone lol Islamic State of Birmingham when the articles says quite clearly they are the council not hoisting the flag.

 

[Mynight]

Funny how a few people have gone lol Islamic State of Birmingham when the articles says quite clearly they are the council not hoisting the flag.

I choose that article purposely to see who actually reads a link before commenting.

 

[Feef]

A charity is different to a warring nation. I do see your point but charities are somewhat vetted in the UK. Flying the flag of one nation in a war could alienate supporters of the other side living in the area. It could even go as far as to be said its supporting anti-semetic behaviour in the community. At least with a charity there's rarely people rallying against them.

(This is not me saying I am pro Israel)

Absolutely, I agree, and I can see why it's probably not a sensible thing to do - my point has just been that as things stand, there's nothing to actually stop them doing so.

I should bow out of this, as it's 4:30am, but should maybe add something before I go. I've never been hugely patriotic, hence spending much of my life overseas, and have no real desire to return to the UK any time soon. However, I do live in a country which isn't allowed to fly its own flag at international events, and has to compete as "Chinese Taipei", with a different flag, or China gets itself all worked up and starts going on about taking Taiwan back by force again. Over a flag. At a sporting event.

This is possibly why I see the whole debate and furore over flags as being such an utterly nonsensical waste of time.

I know there's a difference when flying that flag implies support for that country, but it gives me the same feeling of frustration that there is so much more we could be getting worked up about - the reasons behind such animosity would be a good start, rather than raging about flags. If people could spend half the time they do getting worked up about what's flying where thinking about and addressing the reasons these disagreements come up in the first place, I can't help but think we'd be far better off.

 

[Tefal]

I choose that article purposely to see who actually reads a link before commenting.

it is the labor councilor that is organizing the protest outside the council offices though..