Landlord withholding deposit but not protected it. Advice please.

AndyCr15 said:
An update from my situation. My lawyers called to say they had no response from their letter to the landlady, which doesn't surprise me, I think the address was rather old and probably useless.

As the only tenancy agreement I have was the original one from 2005, the lawyers think there's nothing they can do. It turrns out JAC Stratton kept taking my £40 each time we agreed to renew the tenancy and did absolutely nothing (I called them to ask for the most recent agreement, they didn't have any).

Because the original agreement was before the new laws, there's probably nothing my lawyers can do :(

Annoying that the agents incompetence is costing me £1,400, but I guess at some point at one of the renewals, I should have specifically asked for them to send a new tenancy agreement out.
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? im getting confused :confused: Are you Lartyconshayo ?

Can you put a claim in against the agents? No way should you have to stump up that amount.
 
Surfer said:
? im getting confused :confused: Are you Lartyconshayo ?
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No, sorry for confusing things, just thought there was a good learning point for anyone else who's been renting since before the new law... make sure you have an agreement.

Haggisman said:
If they charged you £40 and put you on another fixed term, then they renewed your tenancy, regardless of whether they issued a new TA or not.
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Clearly they didn't put me on another fixed term if they didn't actually change the tenancy agreement. Looking back, it seems obvious, but I don't think I've ever received another agreement after the initial one and I've rented for around 18 years.
 
AndyCr15 said:
No, sorry for confusing things, just thought there was a good learning point for anyone else who's been renting since before the new law... make sure you have an agreement.



Clearly they didn't put me on another fixed term if they didn't actually change the tenancy agreement. Looking back, it seems obvious, but I don't think I've ever received another agreement after the initial one and I've rented for around 18 years.
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So what was the £40 for? They've either renewed your tenancy, or you've been giving them £40 for nothing.

At the end of your initial fixed term, what normally happens is one of 2 things:

A) You automatically go on to a periodic tenancy - you can give one month's notice, landlord can give 2 months - they shouldn't be charging you if this is the case, since it requires 0 effort on their part, they especially shouldn't be charging you 6 monthly/annually.

B) You renew your tenancy for another fixed term - you may be charged for this, as it involves the agency clicking a few mouse buttons.

Given that they have been charging you to renew the tenancy, it implies that they have been renewing the tenancy - as I mentioned, they don't necessarily need to provide a new tenancy agreement if the terms are the same as the old one, so the fact they haven't got a new version is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact they have been charging you to renew.

The court case I linked is relevant because:

The ramifications of this ruling imply that ALL FIXED TERM tenancies coming to an end create a NEW contract.
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Meaning your new tenancy commenced at the point of the most recent "renewal", and the legislation in place at that time would apply.

I'd ask the agent exactly what you were paying that £40 for if it wasn't to renew your tenancy, if they then admit they haven't been renewing your contract, I'd be demanding a refund of your £720/£1440 (18 years worth of £40 non-existent "renewals").

If they do state they've been renewing your tenancy, then see above - make sure you get this in writing.

I'll also point out at this point that I'm in no way a legal professional, but based on logic, this is how I would approach the situation.
 
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Haggisman said:
or you've been giving them £40 for nothing.
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Bingo!

Haggisman said:
I'll also point out at this point that I'm in no way a legal professional, but based on logic, this is how I would approach the situation.
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Yeah, me too. The solicitor seems to think we need actual proof of tenancy rather than just 'look, we've been paying the agent for the past 8 years for something'. End of the day, an actual tenancy agreement isn't in place after 2006.

Again, looking back this seems kinda obvious. If I'd known, I would have just withheld the last months rent. They would have been in the boat I'm in, no proof that I should actually have been paying rent.
 
AndyCr15 said:
Bingo!



Yeah, me too. The solicitor seems to think we need actual proof of tenancy rather than just 'look, we've been paying the agent for the past 8 years for something'. End of the day, an actual tenancy agreement isn't in place after 2006.
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Which is why you ask the agent what that £40 has been for.

"Nothing" = "I'll have it back then please or I'll take you to court for it"

"Tenancy Renewal" = "I'll have my deposit back then please or I'll take you to court for it"

Did you pay the £40 by direct debit? (very unlikely I know)
 
It was paid online. We renewed every 18 months, so it would total maybe £200. I think it unlikely they will just give me it back and for £200, I'm not going to the hassle of taking them to court.

This is why I posted, I never thought about not actually receiving a paper copy of a renewed agreement. Now it seems obvious I should have asked for one, so I thought I would post to maybe prompt others to ask for theirs.
 
But surely even if they've never sent you it, they should have a record at their end for what the £40 payment was for, and the updated paperwork sat on their servers.
 
Were there no rent increases over the 8 years? A rent increase at renewal time is a strong indication a new contract is formed (I'm not a lawyer) unless there is some clause in the contract stating rent increases by x each 12 months or similar.
 
Yes there was. They sent something with the new amount on, but never a new agreement. In my naivety I thought the original still carried through. Spoke to the lawyer again this morning. Agent claims to have sent a new agreement each time, but never got it back so had no copy themselves, which is rubbish.

Lawyer says as they work on a cut of the compensation, over and above the actual deposit, they can't do any more. I could still take them through the small claims court for my deposit back. I have proof the deposit was paid, just not proof that I had an agreement after the new legislation came into place.
 
Well folks it's the news we've all been waiting for.....

drum roll please...

The landlord has agreed to settle for 2 x deposit to stop the case going to court. Once legal fees are removed I'm left with approx deposit plus £200 and the sweet sweet taste of victory !

Thanks for all the support along the way !
 
I guess that's a good result for you but I have to admit, I was looking forward to hearing that she'd got trounced in court.
 
Imy said:
I guess that's a good result for you but I have to admit, I was looking forward to hearing that she'd got trounced in court.
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While that would have been good it's gone on too long now and to move on with my life I'd prefer this option. She's still out of pocket somewhere in the region of £3000 I'd reckon including her own costs
 
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