Legal Highs 'More Lethal Than Heroin' Warning

[platypus]

It's really not a difficult one to work out - people DO know how bad alcohol is for them yet they still drink it, it hasn't hugely impacted on demand.

The problem with alcohol is that the horse has bolted long ago - it's an ingrained part of culture, the economy, everything. You can't just ban all alcohol, it's only as simple as that on an internet forum. All the government can do is attempt to control peoples intake - they do this through various measures including duty on alcohol and licensing it's sale. It's the best that can be done.

Nobody is 'ignoring' the problems alcohol cause to society.

Well the government did try to act when the problem was incredibly serious - with successive Gin acts culminating in the Gin Act 1751 (Sales of Spirits act in 1750), and by massively popularising the consumption of tea. It actually did work. Ok I'm over simplifying here - it is after all several years since I studied A level history - but they have proven in the past that they can and will take rather heavy handed action with something that was all ready ingrained (hugely) in culture.

I have always felt there is a certain degree of Karmic irony in the fact that many of these "Legal Highs" are actually produced in China and exported to the west! (Check out Opium wars )

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[balky12]

Exactly why anyone who chooses to do drugs should invest in test kits (there are enough of them out there). The law and general perception isn't going to change any time soon so if you choose to do anything ensure you are being as safe as you can.

+1

They are cheap (comparative to drugs) so for the sake of an extra few quid you can get peace of mind.

I take ecstacy in various forms whilst at festivals with friends. We often buy in bulk, same dealer we everytime, he uses everything he sells, have one of these kits to test, just for extra 'saftey'. Been doing it years, never had one problem or a scare. We also spend good money on the stuff, no cheap stuff.

Again though, as touched, self regulation. We don't go over board, yes we are off our faces sometimes, but we look out for one another. Other simple rules like don't buy from strangers at festivals, to me that's just common sense, who knows what they are actually selling?


Legal highs are just scary. Only thing we use is Nitrous Oxide (Balloons). It's not really a gamble though, you know what it is. These 'drugs' China are throwing out faster than you can ban them are the problem. Couple that with stupid people who just want a cheap fix and it's chaos.

Ketamine is the go to drug now though.

 

[Orionaut]

Well the government did try to act when the problem was incredibly serious - with successive Gin acts culminating in the Gin Act 1751 (Sales of Spirits act in 1750), and by massively popularising the consumption of tea. It actually did work. Ok I'm over simplifying here - it is after all several years since I studied A level history - but they have proven in the past that they can and will take rather heavy handed action with something that was all ready ingrained (hugely) in culture.

.

They also encouraged the consumption of weaker fermented drinks such as beer and cider (But not Wine) to wean people off Gin by encouraging people to brew such in their own homes and sell it in their front rooms.

See 1830 Beer act.

(A modern equivalent perhaps would be, say, to make "Herbal" Cannabis (etc) freely available but to crack down hard on the more concentrated or potent recreational narcotics)

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Some are some aren't, etizolam for example is a pharmaceutical used widely in other countries.

Interesting, makes you feel sleepy etc.

Why the hell would anyone want to take a drug to basically pass out?

I totally get MDMA and LSD (Only 2 of i've tried once) but that is beyond me.

Edit: ahhh sort of an alternative to benzo's.

Aside from the effects it has on your serotonin production levels. Similar to crystal meth and dopamine, preventing the reuptake of these can frazzle your natural reward system a bit.

Yep, it's not something you want to be doing on the regular, there are very unpleasant side effects that can start becoming apparent.

 

[ubern00b]

Anyway, I tried some of those legal highs. MDPV was good when that was legal but it was like speed and MDMA mixed, with twice the comedown. I later learned it was super easy to overdose on, if I'd been educated about the dangers by buying from a chemist it would have made me think twice.

Don't you think that since you know full well the current status of these drugs and the fact that a chemist to guide you doesn't exist that the onus falls on yourself to become educated? There are enough harm reduction sites out there (Erowid, TheDEA) that will give you all the information you need about a substance within about 3 mouse clicks.

Just a different POV.

 

[McGray]

Interesting, makes you feel sleepy etc.

Why the hell would anyone want to take a drug to basically pass out?

I totally get MDMA and LSD (Only 2 of i've tried) but that is beyond me.

When you've taken either of the above and want to sleep.

 

[Pestilence]

As long as they don't go after Salvia Divinorum. That stuff is simply wonderful in terms of experiences.

 

[pitchfork]

Don't you think that since you know full well the current status of these drugs and the fact that a chemist to guide you doesn't exist that the onus falls on yourself to become educated? There are enough harm reduction sites out there (Erowid, TheDEA) that will give you all the information you need about a substance within about 3 mouse clicks.

Just a different POV.

You'd think so wouldn't you, but not always.

And anyway, who do you trust more to tell you how to not die on a drug.

The guy with a solid understanding on the chemical and effects on the human body, or the one who takes the drug regularly and learned through trial and error.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

When you've taken either of the above and want to sleep.

Lets all get together and slam some krokodil.

As long as they don't go after Salvia Divinorum. That stuff is simply wonderful in terms of experiences.

I'm interested in trying that once.

On my to do list.

 

[ubern00b]

You'd think so wouldn't you, but not always.

And anyway, who do you trust more to tell you how to not die on a drug.

The guy with a solid understanding on the chemical and effects on the human body, or the one who takes the drug regularly and learned through trial and error.

Quite a lot of the material on these sites is written by qualified chemists and/or people with solid science backgrounds. Of course, if a qualified dispenser existed I would have course trust them more.

[edited]

 

[woofercooker]

I quit smoking ciggs and weed many years ago but I remember trying a smoking blend called "spice gold" a good 8 years ago now it was supposed to be an alternative to cannabis That **** nearly ruined my life, I remember smoking a **** load in a pipe and initially feeling a similar high to weed and thinking wow this stuff really works this is awesome because its legal too, but i then started to get this intense feeling in my stomach sort of like butterfly's but without the anxiety it kept getting more and more intense its hard to explain even though i remember it very well even to this day, sort of like that sinking feeling you get in your stomach when something surprising happens only 10000 times more intense.

At this point i started rocking back and forth i kept singing in my head " i got soul" i got soul" i got souuuuuuuuuul" i have no idea where these words came from but it felt like the intence feeling was something to do with my soul WTF

At this point i started to really crap my pants and laid down on my bed and this is where it started to really mess with my head, My tv started talking to me, yes seriously, i don't mean it had eyes and lips and was talking but it was like eastenders was on and what the charters just so happened to be talking about at the time was completely relevant to me it freaked me out so i turned the channel over and the next program to come on would do the same thing what ever the people were talking about completely related to me in the most intense real way, i changed the channels a number of times and it kept happening,i started to now **** my pants and turned the tv of and rolled over on my bed and just so happened to glace at a magazine and something on the page was again talking directly to me at this point i was like wtf make it stop i can't get away from this, i closed my eyes and everything i just saw on the tv just kept playing in repeat over and over unless i opened eyes at which point the ****ed up coincidences and everything relating to me just kept going on.

It was like i had to give in and let it happen at which point i kind of worked out that it was related to my emotions, the better i tried to feel the better things started to happen, i remember forcing my self to think its ok its going to wear off soon, at which point phill Mitchell said something along the lines of everything it going to be ok ill take care of it just enjoy it. i went on a emotional roller coaster of super low's that felt like i was in hell to literally utter bliss heaven on earth, and i learn t i had some control over it, This went on for what seemed like HOURS, at one point i remember going out to get some fresh air ended up in my local asda and it was like i could read everybody's emotions i knew what they were thinking, i could see lots of miserable people walking around and it was like omg they are living in hell on earth just look at them they all look like they are dying, then i would see happy people full of life walking around with smiles and i was like really drawn to these people they were giving me positive energy it felt amazing then when i focused on the miserable people it was like they were sucking the life out of everybody and everything they walked past.

it was the most ****ed up scary **** that ever happend to me and to this day i can never forget it, it change my perspective on life, i thought i had gone insane at one point but in a crazy way it i would not be who i am today if it never happend,

 

[cheesyboy]

life changing trip

Not sure I would want to actually experience that.... but it sounds damned exciting!

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Not sure I would want to actually experience that.... but it sounds damned exciting!

Peru > Shaman > Ayahuasca

Friend of a friend went and did it. My buddy said he came back so different, before he went he was a stressed out guy highly strung battling negativity etc when he came back he was just a different person and has been for last 6 months.

 

[Energize]

Interesting, makes you feel sleepy etc.

Why the hell would anyone want to take a drug to basically pass out?

I totally get MDMA and LSD (Only 2 of i've tried once) but that is beyond me.

Edit: ahhh sort of an alternative to benzo's.

Yes, it is a non-benzodiazepine, mainly used for it's medical properties of alleviating insomnia and anxiety. The benzodiazepines are great medical drugs but pretty useless as recreational drugs in and of themselves.

There are a few true benzodiazepines on the market such as pyrazolam, flubromazepam and chlorodiazepam but they are research chemicals.

Aside from the effects it has on your serotonin production levels. Similar to crystal meth and dopamine, preventing the reuptake of these can frazzle your natural reward system a bit.

Evidence of that is equivocal, numerous studies show no effect on human cognition.

Remember that antidepressants also prevent the reuptake or increase the levels of the same neurotransmitters and are used for years at a time without ill effect.

Money, it is and always has been about money.
The more problems with a sustance, the more reasons they have to tax it. Also, "they" can't patent a coca plant.

Cocaine is produced by pharmaceutical companies, along with most other illegal drugs, they are profitable to produce without any sort of patent, and significant competition from the other companies. Legalising drugs would allow pharmaceutical companies to sell to a huge market that was previously unavailable to them £££.

 

[Haze]

legal highs are just some thing that need to be regulated better, and people educated about so they know what they are putting in their bodies, banning it will be as successful as all the other drugs people do, that are illegal....

 

[Meridian]

Someone who is not me... Tested Legal Highs extensively with friends.

But - Always researching fully beforehand, checking interactions with other things, taking 'allergic test' amounts, then little bits, working up to 'medicinal dose' over the course of a few weeks.

Noting down what it was for X, then for Y... Over about 6 months.

Basically being sensible - Knew that an antagonist and suppressant shouldn't be mixed... Never doing "too much".

Legal highs are just the same as any other recreational drug - Just less documentation / no real testing on humans / nothing to work back on.
But - What you are getting is what it says on the tin - What you get from Bob in the pub can be anything.

Too often nowadays - Getting E or similar - It's just a legal high repackaged and sold on!

I even heard of a friend of a neighbours son, bought stuff online - Repackaged it into small doses - Sold it at a festival pretending it was E.
That can kill people.

If you, or anyone else here, thinks that what you receive from an order over the interwebs is what is described on the packaging then I have bad news for you. On occasion, yes. But I wouldn't bet more than 2p on it. Let's start with the obvious problem that many drugs go under nicknames where people can't even agree on what the drug is that has that name. Anyone remember "Ivory Wave"? We test bought about eight lots over the internet and no two were the same. To this day I have no idea what Ivory Wave was meant to be.

So let's suppose that we all agree what it is you are buying. Like the guy who bought some clearly labelled 5-MeO-PCP. Shame that's not what it was - actually it was 4-MeO-etycyclidine (small boast, but it took me a couple of hours to co-identify it, the first seizure in the UK - and probably the last). Same family, but that's about it. If you buy "mephedrone" what on earth makes you think that you will get actual mephedrone? I've seen butylone, methylone, benzedrone, mixtures of things like benzocaine and caffeine, and all sorts of things, all marketed as "mephedrone". All bought from the internet. Or a trustworthy friend.

Which brings me to a favourite question for all the druggies: how do you know you have ever taken a drug that you believe it to be? That tablet that you really liked, so you assumed it was MDMA, for example. How do you know it was? Please don't say "I tested it", because unless the test was done by a reputable laboratory with at least one EI mass spec and a good library I'm just going to laugh at your naiveté. And don't say that you saw the results of a test on an identical tablet, because that's nonsense as well.

 

[cheesyboy]

reality

Yup. But that's all surely the result of the laws forcing supply into the hands of criminals?

And, despite the risks, people are taking it anyway. It's a public health issue, and I don't know how supporters of drug laws can sleep at night given the harm it causes.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Which brings me to a favourite question for all the druggies: how do you know you have ever taken a drug that you believe it to be? That tablet that you really liked, so you assumed it was MDMA, for example. How do you know it was? Please don't say "I tested it", because unless the test was done by a reputable laboratory with at least one EI mass spec and a good library I'm just going to laugh at your naiveté. And don't say that you saw the results of a test on an identical tablet, because that's nonsense as well.

This is true.

 

[Energize]

So let's suppose that we all agree what it is you are buying. Like the guy who bought some clearly labelled 5-MeO-PCP. Shame that's not what it was - actually it was 4-MeO-etycyclidine (small boast, but it took me a couple of hours to co-identify it, the first seizure in the UK - and probably the last). Same family, but that's about it. If you buy "mephedrone" what on earth makes you think that you will get actual mephedrone? I've seen butylone, methylone, benzedrone, mixtures of things like benzocaine and caffeine, and all sorts of things, all marketed as "mephedrone". All bought from the internet. Or a trustworthy friend.

I don't know about psychotomimetics, but based on what I've seen of the GC-MS results the current benzodiazepines and etizolam on the market are almost always the real thing, in fact the pills seem to be identical in composition to the ones supplied by pharmaceutic companies so I'd assume they were being obtained from them. It probably varies by drug class and whether the drug is only a research chemical or is actually a pharmaceutical in foreign countries.

 

[Devrij]

Evidence of that is equivocal, numerous studies show no effect on human cognition.

Remember that antidepressants also prevent the reuptake or increase the levels of the same neurotransmitters and are used for years at a time without ill effect.

I think there's a big difference between flooding your synapses with serotonin at very high levels and increasing your base serotonin levels with SSRIs. And yes, coming off of SSRIs can cause serious issues, so it's hard to say "without ill effect". Haven't you ever had a horrific comedown?