this really *YELLOW* es me off no end

[Haggisman]

You're defending something very bad by pointing out something else very bad. This is ridiculous. Neither should be happening. If you feel strongly about that then don't stay quiet!

I never said I feel strongly about it, my point is that if she feels so strongly about equality, why is she not mentioning the other side as well?

Answer: she's not interested in equality - that is my problem with it.

Look at how you've put the word gamers. Why have you done this? You have zero evidence that women don't play a range of games and you're immediately discrediting a significant percentage of the gaming market.

I would use it the same way talking about anyone who plays those facebook/casual "games", female or otherwise.

IMO a gamer is someone who actively plays games as a hobby, not someone who solves a few puzzles on their phone while waiting for the bus, or plays farmville because all their friends keep sending them invites, in the same way you wouldn't call someone who takes a few snaps with their mobile a "photographer", or someone who can strum a few chords of Wonderwall on a guitar a "musician".

The fact you assumed I said it in that way to be derogatory towards women says far more about your attitude than mine.

Marketing cleaning products and frozen food at women is derogatory to men?!

The insinuation that men are incapable of performing those tasks is derogatory (although I guess the Iceland one could be taken as being derogatory towards women, by implying they are unable to cook ).

The far more realistic probability is that everyone is reading far too much into it, but then that wouldn't give anyone a soapbox to yell from and try to make themselves famous on youtube

 

[Tunney]

I never said I feel strongly about it, my point is that if she feels so strongly about equality, why is she not mentioning the other side as well?

Answer: she's not interested in equality - that is my problem with it.

Maybe because the situation is much worse for women?

Sexism against men: You're a bad cook, lol
Sexism against women: You have an opinion that I disagree with so I'm going to make death threats and threats of sexual violence against you and your family

If sexism against woman was only as bad as sexism against men, I'm sure many feminists would be pretty OK with things.

 

[Shamikebab]

I never said I feel strongly about it, my point is that if she feels so strongly about equality, why is she not mentioning the other side as well?

Answer: she's not interested in equality - that is my problem with it.

Possibly true, but the thread isn't specifically about Anita, it's about the way women are treated in video games.

I would use it the same way talking about anyone who plays those facebook/casual "games", female or otherwise.

IMO a gamer is someone who actively plays games as a hobby, not someone who solves a few puzzles on their phone while waiting for the bus, or plays farmville because all their friends keep sending them invites, in the same way you wouldn't call someone who takes a few snaps with their mobile a "photographer", or someone who can strum a few chords of Wonderwall on a guitar a "musician".

The fact you assumed I said it in that way to be derogatory towards women says far more about your attitude than mine.

A gamer is someone who plays games. It doesn't matter what qualifiers you decided to put on it. You are being derogatory towards women, whether you realise it or not.

The insinuation that men are incapable of performing those tasks is derogatory (although I guess the Iceland one could be taken as being derogatory towards women, by implying they are unable to cook ).

The far more realistic probability is that everyone is reading far too much into it, but then that wouldn't give anyone a soapbox to yell from and try to make themselves famous

And again you're trivializing the issue by claiming that people that speak up about it are "yelling" and trying to make themselves famous. Do you honestly believe that misogyny is not a problem in gaming?

 

[Haggisman]

Sexism against women: You have an opinion that I disagree with so I'm going to make death threats and threats of sexual violence against you and your family

If that was sexism then wouldn't it be "You're a woman so I'm going to make death threats and threats of sexual violence against you and your family"?

Death threats because of articles and opinions posted online are nothing new, and certainly not exclusive to women.

Hell, the company behind the oculus rift were getting death threats for selling out to Facebook

 

[cheesyboy]

The insinuation that men are incapable of performing those tasks is derogatory (although I guess the Iceland one could be taken as being derogatory towards women, by implying they are unable to cook ).

No it's not. But it's insulting and unhelpful to everyone that such tasks are painted as being "for" women. Just reinforces gender stereotypes. Men are discouraged from taking part, women are discouraged from aspiring to anything else.

 

[Haggisman]

You are being derogatory towards women, whether you realise it or not.

Care to explain how?

Male who only plays facebook "games" = "gamer"
Female who only plays facebook "games" = "gamer"

in what way is that derogatory to either party over the other?

I'm probably being "derogatory" to people who only play facebook "games", but it's not gender specific.

I guess on the plus side, by your definition, I'm a photographer, chef, musician, painter and decorator, landscaper, mechanic, doctor, sleep therapist, network engineer, and chauffeur, all rolled into one

 

[Haggisman]

No it's not. But it's insulting and unhelpful to everyone that such tasks are painted as being "for" women. Just reinforces gender stereotypes. Men are discouraged from taking part, women are discouraged from aspiring to anything else.

So;

Insinuation that men are incapable of performing simple everyday tasks = not derogatory.

Insinuation that women are incapable of being macho killing machines = derogatory.

Got it

(although personally I'd rather be recognised for the more-realistic scenario of being a good father than single handedly saving the world, I guess I have low aspirations )

 

[Shamikebab]

Care to explain how?

Male who only plays facebook "games" = "gamer"
Female who only plays facebook "games" = "gamer"

in what way is that derogatory to either party over the other?

You didn't say that though, upon the suggestion that females make up a significant proportion the gaming demographic you attempted to trivialize it by questioning their 'credentials'.

Also

But you don't see us whining like little <female dogs> about it

Yeah you're definitely not being derogatory to women at all.

So;

Insinuation that men are incapable of performing simple everyday tasks = not derogatory.

Insinuation that women are incapable of being macho killing machines = derogatory.

Got it

Again trivializing the issue rather than making a serious argument.

 

[Haggisman]

You didn't say that though, upon the suggestion that females make up a significant proportion the gaming demographic you attempted to trivialize it by questioning their 'credentials'.

Also



Yeah you're definitely not being derogatory to women at all.


Again trivializing the issue rather than making a serious argument.

That's because quite frankly I see it as a trivial issue, which everyone is getting a little too worked up about, hence the abundance of tongue in cheek smileys in my posts.

Note: the death threats is not what I refer to as trivial - it's a massive overreaction, and one which should be punished to the full extent of the law when/if they catch the person responsible. No one deserves that, no matter how much of a fool they make of themselves.

I've no problem with anyone campaigning for actual equality, however these people who campaign for inequality under the guise of campaigning for equality are at best, laughable and should be ignored, and at worst, detrimental to the actual cause of equality, since by attempting to push their own agendas in it's name, cause any real campaigners to be met with suspicion.

 

[jas72]

Have you watched any of her videos? It might help enlighten you as to why it's a problem.

No one was enough.

Like I said the only game I've played where I thought it was close to the line was GTA where the women are treated very poorly.

But it's a form of entertainment if you don't like it don't play.

Sure it might influence the weak minded but come on we can't cotton wool the whole population because a certain percentage of it is dumb.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

Follow Janet Bloomfield on Twitter. She started the Women Against Feminism movement and is currently covering this topic quite heavily.

She is of the opinion that young men created a multi-billion dollar industry, and if the odd few women don't like it, they can go off and create their own... adding, it would fail because nobody wants to play games centric to their beliefs because they are hateful.

The very few, should not dictate an entire industry.

Another good point raised, was that millions of male characters are murdered in gaming culture for decades but as soon as you put one woman in a scrimpy outfit, outrage begins.

You would be surprised how many oppose feminist logic, there are definitely more in opposition than in support but gaming media portray a different picture to adhere to the agenda and try to be "current". SJW scum.

She is a fascinating woman really. The comments about "You can do it ladies.... until you need to get your hands dirty. Then you stop!" ..did make me chuckle.

Also covered the topics such as more lenient prison sentences for women for the very same crimes, a 14 year old lad was the victim of statutory rape by a 20 yr old woman but ended up getting sued for child support 8 years later, never knowing he was even a father.

It all ties into an ideology that women should have privelage in ALL walks of life, even when they aren't willing to earn their way into it like men have to.

 

[Tunney]

Death threats because of articles and opinions posted online are nothing new, and certainly not exclusive to women.

Hell, the company behind the oculus rift were getting death threats for selling out to Facebook

I've been saying dumb things on the Internet for 20 years. No-one has ever threatened to kill or rape me. The majority of my female friends who use Twitter have received such threats. It's a small sample size but every study I've read backs up mine and my friends' experiences. Men do receive threats but it's far less likely. Death threats against anyone shouldn't be acceptable.

 

[Shamikebab]

That's because quite frankly I see it as a trivial issue, which everyone is getting a little too worked up about, hence the abundance of tongue in cheek smileys in my posts.

Note: the death threats is not what I refer to as trivial - it's a massive overreaction, and one which should be punished to the full extent of the law when/if they catch the person responsible. No one deserves that, no matter how much of a fool they make of themselves.

I've no problem with anyone campaigning for actual equality, however these people who campaign for inequality under the guise of campaigning for equality are at best, laughable and should be ignored, and at worst, detrimental to the actual cause of equality, since by attempting to push their own agendas in it's name, cause any real campaigners to be met with suspicion.

Again you're trivializing. A minority of feminists campaigning for inequality doesn't make feminism irrelevant. Can you just clarify what you mean when you say the issue is trivial. You think equality in gaming is trivial?

 

[spoffle]

Classy

You're actually using videos from someone who has these on his youtube:

If men acted like feminists
Which is worse? Christian Reason, Feminism, Islam or Scientology
Why 'feminism' poisons EVERYTHING
Teach them not to rape

And at that point I got bored. Perhaps you shouldn't be following misogynistic people on youtube

How exactly is any of this misogyny?

 

[jas72]

Maybe because the situation is much worse for women?

Sexism against men: You're a bad cook, lol
Sexism against women: You have an opinion that I disagree with so I'm going to make death threats and threats of sexual violence against you and your family

If sexism against woman was only as bad as sexism against men, I'm sure many feminists would be pretty OK with things.

no one on this forum has condoned the threats made.

Her rant is about how games use throw away female characters (non essential) in a sexual way and also show them in sexy death poses.

Where as the men in the games are not given sexy death poses.

She wants the women to be brutally murdered the same as men in fact but so long as they aren't wearing sexy clothes.

I think. She does ramble on a bit and I lose interest with the same point being repeated over and over again.

Good thing about her is she's given me a good list of games to buy

 

[Shamikebab]

No one was enough.

Like I said the only game I've played where I thought it was close to the line was GTA where the women are treated very poorly.

But it's a form of entertainment if you don't like it don't play.

Sure it might influence the weak minded but come on we can't cotton wool the whole population because a certain percentage of it is dumb.

Jas if you honestly think that GTA is the only game you've played that has inequality in it then either you've played a very, very small amount of games or you need to rethink things.

Honestly I think you need to do a bit of research about this if it genuinely interests you. It's very difficult to have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand the basic meaning of equality. There are plenty of well written articles out there that can help you, have a look around.

 

[Shamikebab]

How exactly is any of this misogyny?

Have you watched any of his videos?

 

[jas72]

Care to explain how?

Male who only plays facebook "games" = "gamer"
Female who only plays facebook "games" = "gamer"

in what way is that derogatory to either party over the other?

I'm probably being "derogatory" to people who only play facebook "games", but it's not gender specific.

I play hearthstone on ipad AND PC what does that make me Haggisman

On second thoughts don't answer that.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

Again you're trivializing. A minority of feminists campaigning for inequality doesn't make feminism irrelevant. Can you just clarify what you mean when you say the issue is trivial. You think equality in gaming is trivial?

Misogyny is meant to mean the "hatred of women". Misused word by many.

What inequality do women face in Western culture now? Absolutely none whatsoever. I can give you a pretty list just to kick start things off.

The gender pay gap has been revealed as false, proven. Women are opting for part time work after marriage, even when there are no children. Want to spend the husband's money and hang out with the girls.

Women have more legal rights when it comes to first carer matters with children and break ups.

Women get away with domestic abuse regular with little to no support for male victims.

Women get lighter prison sentences for the same crimes aimed towards men.

Women are rarely convicted for statutory rape and men end up paying child support regardless.

Women can choose to have a child and accept parental responsibility, or not. Men have no such choice. There is no choice for men whatsoever.

Most single parenting charities and establishments are all aimed towards women, when in fact more and more men are taking on the traditional home parenting role.

There is no privilege in being a man these days. Regardless of what these feminist dingbats claim. On about "The Patriarchy" and other ridiculous phrases like "Rape Culture".

Ever known a "Murder Culture"? Don't think so.

It's an organised grand delusion far far from the original reason it came about. It was about basic equality and rights. Now it's turned into removing rights from men in order to strengthen their own position. It's absolutely and totally wrong.

I'm just glad a lot of women totally agree.

 

[Shamikebab]

Speechless. I can't believe I actually expected more from ocuk, what a shame.