or they just sell it outside the uk....
its not like the earth has a particular shortage of mouths to feed.
or they just sell it outside the uk....
its not like the earth has a particular shortage of mouths to feed.
Because vegetarians only exist in the UK.
Oh wa.....
Also, replace the word meat with any other good to see the flaw in the argument. (In that if it was as profitable to sell abroad they would already be expanding, in reality the reduction in the consumption of meat is a global trend amongst the younger generations).
While there are indeed plenty of mouths to feed, there is not an infinite amount of customers with the money to pay for the goods at prices which make UK based farming sustainable. (Or any operation in theory)
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It would be increasing faster if it wasn't for vegans & vegetarians yes?.
It's amazing the mental gymnastics people seem to be willing to do to avoid taking responsibility for their choices. What I find particularly amusing is that people seen to think the laws of supply & demand don't apply to meat.
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Oh wow, delusional. Let's just pretend you're making sense though.
Well I never said this, Captain Strawman.
Yes, I never argued anything to the contrary.
They aren't laws, but okay if you say so.
I never said supply and demand doesn't apply to meat reduction, Captain Strawman.
Yes, I never said anything otherwise, captain strawman. I've already explained my post was in response to the smug, pompous, self-congratulatory attitude of "look how many animals I think I'm saving, how great am I?" that was being exude by the OP.
Besides, the opposing side to what you are saying is that by eating meat - you don't cause the death of animals (how nice & deluded in must be to believe that)
No, no it isn't. I am well aware that the consumption of meat requires the slaughtering of animals. You are delusional if you think I'm saying anything otherwise, Captain Strawman.
Yes, I think we all realise that. Do you want a gold star for doing a good?
Wow, as I asked before, what has happened to you? You used to be able to hold an argument, and now you're doing, well this, what you've put forth is an abomination of an argument, and I'm surprised you're not embarrassed by the nonsense you're allowing yourself to come out with.
Yes, no one has argued to the contrary, however if world demand for meat is increasing, then vegans aren't saving any animals, and vegetarians definitely aren't, as the OP has demonstrated, whilst they don't partake in the consumption of meat, they are more than happy to wear dead animal skin on their feet, and sit on it in their car. For vegans to be saving animals, demand for meat would have to be decreasing.
To be able to do mental gymnastics requires you to be mentally limber, something you are not, as you have been demonstrating.
No one is saying supply and demand (they aren't laws) doesn't apply to meat. You are continually twisting what people are saying and arguing against it, pack it in and argue like an adult.
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The WORLD population is increasing. The DEMAND for Meat as a Protein source is increasing.
Your argument that Vegan/Vegetarianism slows this down might be valid, but it has failed to make any headlines in any of the Farming Newspapers I browse!
People want meat, they'll continue to want meat, so Farming will continue, just like it has for 100s of Generations.
If you use any animal product or any product related to or which uses animal products unit manufacture or production then you are responsible for the deaths of animals. Whether you eat meat or not, plastics, paints, clothing, medicines and I'm sure you don't need me to go on. But in essence food or no food, each and everyone of us contributes to the use of animal products in in way or another, even if we do not realise or even know about it. I'm not sure that not eating meat really contributes to the non-expansion of animal death exactly, as if we didn't eat them, most of the other uses would still be necessary and even if they were not, we would still need to control animal numbers, especially in herd animals which would mean culling. I'm not convinced that culling is any better than farming in this respect.
I know you well enough I think to realise you are not being judgemental (I assume you are a vegetarian or vegan?) but the way you expressed this argument does come across that way.
I'm sure he recently stated that he's a vegan, or is one currently at least.
I think it's obviously clouding his judgement, or influencing the way he is presenting his arguments as they are full of strawmans with responses to things no-one has actually said.
As I've said, I'm actually disappointed that he's arguing like this, as I've seen in the past he is able to hold an argument well, but at the moment that isn't the case.
I think it's obviously clouding his judgement, or influencing the way he is presenting his arguments as they are full of strawmans with responses to things no-one has actually said.
As I've said, I'm actually disappointed that he's arguing like this, as I've seen in the past he is able to hold an argument well, but at the moment that isn't the case.
I suspect that like many vegans he is passionate about animal welfare and such. Its understandable that he would be a little emotive about it if that is the case.
no not really.
supply reducing as demand reduces assumes that supply matches demand, as it is demand for food especially meat far outstrips supply.
Demand could fall significantly and still not affect production because there are more people wanting it than there is to go around.
Of course, but in the past this sort of stuff hasn't meant he can't hold an argument. There's being passionate, and there's going overboard with strawman examples of things no one said. I'm starting to think something's up
I haven't read the thread, I've just peeked my head in. It seems somewhat divisive from what I've skimmed. Perhaps I'll peek my head back out again...
Not if it's a Vegetarian v Carnivore v Omnivore debate. They lead nowhere, mainly because people are what they eat and rarely change.
I eat meat, I have very little choice but to eat meat as I cannot get the required protein otherwise, at least not easily. I also support animal welfare, particularly ethical farming. I also do not disagree with hunting either, but again it has to have a reason...not simply for sport alone, or trophy hunting as both seem pointless and unethical to me. And I realise some will feel these (and some other opinions I have on this subject) are inconsistent or incompatible with each other. I, of course don't see it that way, but how I look at this subject illustrates, I think, the complexity of the subject and the opinions people have about it.
Besides last time I entered in a debate related to hunting for example I was subject to some pretty nasty abuse from Craterloads so I try to keep out of it.
So, from a vegetarian/vegan's point of view , is it better for an animal to be never born at all than to be born, have a life, and then be killed for meat?
This is assuming that they are well looked after livestock (as you can't really say you don't eat meat because a tv show you saw once showed some badly treated cows, you can always source meat from good farms/butcher's etc if you are really concerned about animal vwelfare)
This is assuming that they are well looked after livestock (as you can't really say you don't eat meat because a tv show you saw once showed some badly treated cows, you can always source meat from good farms/butcher's etc if you are really concerned about animal vwelfare)
SkodaMart
SkodaMart
OP
Duh!!
Of course it's better to be not born at all than it is to be exploited all your life and then killed.
How many of your seeds have fallen on stoneyb ground?
Each one could have been a beautiful baby - but it wasn't.
Nothing is lost and no harm is done.
See the very first post I made in this thread.
I'm not totally against eating meat, I am however against modern farming, exploitation and cruelty of animals.
Give me a fishing line and fresh mackerel, hand caught, killed and cooked by myself.
I could be tempted.
Killing thousands of badgers just so we can eat beef - I would sooner have a tin of beans instead.
It's just wrong.
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