NFC is locked down in iPhone 6

Ixon

Ixon

Ixon

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Well there goes any use of NFC on the iPhone 6 in the UK, or other European countries as it works with Apple pay only.

So those planning on linking their camera's ect via NFC can forget it on a iPhone 6.

So a feature of the iPhone 6 that can't be used outside of the USA :rolleyes:
 
It can be opened up. The APIs apparently are not finished for developers to integrate yet (I imagine huge security implications). No word on release but to say "it's coming".

I look forward to it as I have an idea I'd love to test out.
 
I don't know why you're crying. Touch ID was locked down until recently, so it stands to reason they want to keep these APIs locked down until the ApplePay stuff is polished.

Can you honestly see real world implementation in the UK before iPhone 6S, given Apple are imposing strict EPOS upgrades? Doubtful.

I'd go so far as to say we won't see proper adoption in the UK until at least the iPhone 7 / 2 years.
 
It works with any contactless infrastructure it's just normal NFS that does authentication down the line, the other bits are on the Banks/Apples end which need changing which Apple OFC is doing as its Apple pay.
 
Hopefully it's something they move forward with swiftly, there's already been leaks/rumours of UnionPay integration (China) and they already have the integration with MasterCard, Visa & Amex. Just getting credit card integration would be a nice step forward.
 
uchuff said:
Would it not work with existing contactless infrastructure? Once the card/bank integrations are in place Apple's end.
Click to expand...

You've got to remember the existing contactless infrastructure in the UK is designed to be used without authorisation and is limited to purchases under £10

Apple is trying to create something else here, a system that has no payment limits. That's because the apple pay system requires finger print identification, which you could argue is even more secure than chip and pin.

Ixon said:
Well there goes any use of NFC on the iPhone 6 in the UK, or other European countries as it works with Apple pay only.

So those planning on linking their camera's ect via NFC can forget it on a iPhone 6.

So a feature of the iPhone 6 that can't be used outside of the USA :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


don't be so sensationalist. Did you honestly expect apple was going to open up the NFC chip so you could pair devices left right and centre and do what you want with it ? completely defeats the whole point of having a secure apple pay system if the system is open for people to mess about with. Just like touch ID there will be APIs so you can load your oyster card on it etc.. but its going to take time.
 
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Fr0dders said:
You've got to remember the existing contactless infrastructure in the UK is designed to be used without authorisation and is limited to purchases under £10
Click to expand...

£20, up from £15 in 2012.

The fingerprint sensing is handled by the phone. To do what apple wants (no limits) the infrastructure presumably just needs to be able to identify an iPhone as something that has had that extra layer of security included - hopefully that's at the acquirer/issuer level. I was mainly querying the "strict EPOS upgrades" that EVH mentioned.
 
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the existing NFC kit won't be set up to ask for authorisation.

Its going to need new kit to enable it to detect the difference between an iphone and a normal NFC reader and allow unlimited transactions for the iphone. Its got to know the difference between the two.

Thats where the EPOS upgrades come in.
 
Fr0dders said:
the existing NFC kit won't be set up to ask for authorisation.

Its going to need new kit to enable it to detect the difference between an iphone and a normal NFC reader and allow unlimited transactions for the iphone. Its got to know the difference between the two.

Thats where the EPOS upgrades come in.
Click to expand...

The EPOS changes are nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with the Card Issuers pushing for all ePOS to support contactless payment by 2015. Still does not mean there will be widespread adoption though.

Also, why is there a need for new kit to detect Apple devices? That's ludicrous. NFC is an open standard and it should be utilised as such. Not turned into a pseudo-proprietary standard JUST so ApplePay can work uniquely with ePOS.

The ONLY ePOS upgrade needed is support for the NFC open-standard and the Card Issuers back end. It should then work transparently with ANY NFC enabled card/device that also meets those standards.

If Apple wants to do fingerprint authorisation for wireless payment then THAT stage of the payment should occur on the device, NOT as part of an Apple standard on ePOS readers.
 
Wouldn't the secure enclave on the A7/A8 chips handle the fingerprint authorisation?
 
Sin_Chase said:
Also, why is there a need for new kit to detect Apple devices? That's ludicrous. NFC is an open standard and it should be utilised as such. Not turned into a pseudo-proprietary standard JUST so ApplePay can work uniquely with ePOS.
Click to expand...

Are we talking about what should happen here, or what is happenning ?

Because from what I'm reading and the timescales, apple is very much creating a pseudo-proprietary standard, otherwise it would work in the UK without too much issue.
 
doing a bit of reading it does appear that they wise the existing NFC readers

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2364539/visa-to-roll-out-apple-pay-across-europe-in-2015

This daunting task of bringing Apple Pay to the European continent will be achieved via the 1.5 million Visa contactless payment terminals found in stores across the continent.....

Sousa explained to V3 that Apple Pay uses Visa's tokenisation service that replaces credit card numbers with another set of identifying but not financially compromising numbers, thereby enhancing security.
Click to expand...

Anybody know if the UK NFC implementation without authentication uses that service ?

They are piggy backing off the visa tech, but the visa tech is still limited to £20. Wonder if apple's system increases that, or if when it does finally get to europe its still limited to £20 ?
 
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This thread on reddit gives a good indication of why the banks are liking the token system that Apple Pay uses and the benefits to them over other systems.

A user summarised it as:

Banks are very interested in protecting their bank-client relationship. With Apple Pay, transactional information and credit/debit card numbers are only known by the card-issuing bank and Visa/MC/Amex. For banks, they dislike unnecessary parties being involved. With the way Apple Pay is set up, Apple will not be able to track transactions or know card numbers as a unique token is generated for each card that is added. Only recent transaction information is stored only on the phone, although I'm unsure of the duration. Merchants know there was a transaction, but don't know the actual credit/debit numbers used or even the name of the person.

The current implementation of Google Wallet is only beneficial to Google. He made sure to bring up Google's ability to track transactions as well as their storage of credit/debit card numbers as to why banks dislike Google Wallet. For banks, it's the choice of paying either a certain percentage (I read 0.15%) of all transactions or giving up valuable information about their clients. Not a hard choice to make at all.

Softcard/Isis is a terrible solution as they involve mobile carriers. As history has taught us, they are terrible at providing updates. Their implementations tend to be problematic and against the best interest of consumers such as their app stores and the junk they have placed on phones.

Banks have a massive incentive for customers to use Apple Pay. It looks they were very involved in the Apple Pay design process and worked overtime to make sure they were ready for rollout. They may actually offer rewards or promotions in the future to encourage its use.

Apple Pay required massive infrastructure changes as well as new encryption methods from banks and credit card networks due to the use of tokens. Bank and Visa/MC/Amex employees involved with Apple Pay worked under constant overtime and the utmost security for a year just to prepare. In the US, Apple Pay is a massive change for NFC and anyone who says NFC has already been done is ignorant in assuming it's the same.
Click to expand...

Praying there are no swearies in there!
 
Apple Pay required massive infrastructure changes as well as new encryption methods from banks and credit card networks due to the use of tokens. Bank and Visa/MC/Amex employees involved with Apple Pay worked under constant overtime and the utmost security for a year just to prepare. In the US, Apple Pay is a massive change for NFC and anyone who says NFC has already been done is ignorant in assuming it's the same.
Click to expand...

Presumably all this talk of epos upgrades is in reference to people that don't have NFC payment options already.

The upgrade work is behind the scenes as Sin Chase suggested
 
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