Any more ideas for my new motor?

Personally it would be between the ST225 and EP3 for me, EP3 will be more to insure but I'd imagine running costs will be a bit less...

If it was my money though I'd by the ST225 as to me it's the most interesting + easiest to mod on that list to silly power (If that's your kind of thing of course).
 
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EP3. Join the ocuk Honda elite. Keep it standard and be different to the rest. Enjoy a great car at dirt cheap prices. Plenty of us on here able to offer advice.

Not a single ST would get near my EP3, don't even consider it.

Test drive both and you would agree straight away.
 
rjkoneill said:
Not a single ST would get near my EP3, don't even consider it.
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These sort of comments are always fairly amusing - in reality both cars are similar enough performance wise that this just isn't the case. You massively underestimate quite how much of a power differential is for one car to be slower by sufficient margin to 'not get near' the other.
 
And I've driven both substantially and owned one for a significant time.
An ep3 with a grand spent on mods would easily see off most ST focuses.
 
DAIR said:
RX8... Cheap to insure lol. Na mate. I paid a bag of money to have mine insured.
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£700 for me, about the same as an A3 2.0. Was even cheap when I was looking when I was 18, it was just the general RX-8 flaws that put me off.
 
That would depend by what you mean when you say 'see off'.

They are unlikely to be that different - they are that similar in terms of power and weight. You'd need a heck of a power advantage to 'see off' the other car.
 
On the road you really need a significant power to weight difference as per above. All it really takes is for one car to be in slightly the wrong gear or for one driver to be a bit more gung ho than the other to make things seems significantly different to where they would be if you actually lined both cars up.

On track the EP3's (and FN2 to be fair) really punch above their weight if driven well though
 
rjkoneill said:
Same spent on a set of AD08s for an ep3 and goodbye moutune ST.
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Again you fail to really expand on what you mean - 'see off', 'would not get near' and 'goodbye ST' just sounds like baseless carpark talk to me?

Exactly what would the credible performance gap be? We are talking two similar weight FWD hatchbacks with similar power levels - neither is going to be significantly quicker than the other.
 
rjkoneill said:
Same spent on a set of AD08s for an ep3 and goodbye moutune ST.

Assumptions you are making.
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I think you need to get a sense of perspective. An EP3 and ST have virtually identical performance for all intents and purposes. Fractions of a second here and there are meaningless on the road.
 
[TW]Fox;26955574 said:
That would depend by what you mean when you say 'see off'.

They are unlikely to be that different - they are that similar in terms of power and weight. You'd need a heck of a power advantage to 'see off' the other car.
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Admittedly stock for stock, both cars are pretty much the same performance albeit delivered in very different packages.

The Honda is a car designed to be driven hard and sat on the rev limiter with a decent amount of steering feedback in stock form and the ability to control the chassis movement from small steering inputs. It is let down by lack of hydraulic steering but aren't most cars from the past 15 yyears?

The focus on the other hand is designed to go fast in a straight line. The car has a lovely torque focussed engine with great power delivery and sound from low down in the rev range. This doesn't however match up with the wishy washy, direly electronic steering, average chassis feel and nose heavy cornering response.

Around some tight corners I would feel more confident in the civic given the higher level of communication.

If I wanted to drag race, the focus would be a great choice. As the turbo and potential for mapping associated with that factor would really benefit the paper stats.

But let's face it, going fast in a straight line isn't much fun is it?
 
rjkoneill said:
If I wanted to drag race, the focus would be a great choice. As the turbo and potential for mapping associated with that factor would really benefit the paper stats.
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By paper stats you mean.. how fast the car is? :p
rjkoneill said:
But let's face it, going fast in a straight line isn't much fun is it?
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Depends, losing in a straight line isn't much fun either?

The majority of roads in the UK are relatively 'straight line'. Going fast is more about power than handling finesse, unless you are insane or in the twistiest of twisties.
 
rjkoneill said:
The Honda is a car designed to be driven hard and sat on the rev limiter with a decent amount of steering feedback in stock form
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I thought the steering feedback was the one notable poor area in an otherwise fairly decent package?

If I wanted to drag race, the focus would be a great choice. As the turbo and potential for mapping associated with that factor would really benefit the paper stats.

But let's face it, going fast in a straight line isn't much fun is it?
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You are never going to be able to get into a situation on a road where the handling differences you claim (I've certainly not heard the Focus referred to as anything other than a decent handling car before, though) are sufficient enough that the Civic is able to noticeably leave the Focus behind and the Focus unable to keep up. You'd need to be driving so ridiculously hard, so on the limit that it's just completely impractical and a complete non-issue.

Neither car is going to 'see off' the other.
 
I'm sure an EP3 would be better in a twisty road but how often really are you pushing that hard on the road to actually have an advantage? Straight line power however is often easy to take advantage of daily.
 
I have to admit 'see off a Focus ST' is a pretty vague statement! Like PMK said, remap the Focus and it'd likely be the other way round. To achieve the same effect from an EP3 you'd need to supercharge it :p

The Focus does have hydraulic power steering doesn't it?
 
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geekman said:
With regards to the RX-8, you should actually find them very cheap to insure, not sure why, but for some reason they are. That's not to say you should get one however - if you're looking at A3s and suchlike, I assume you're looking for something decent you can use day to day, and I'm not sure an RX-8 falls into that category. :p

Out of your list, I'd choose a Focus ST or Mazda 3 MPS - the MPS is ridiculously fast for what it is, and my old Mazda 3 was a great car. Although as you want some practicality, I'd go the whole hog and look at bigger cars such as an ST220 or Mazda 6 MPS - if you can insure a Focus ST, you shouldn't have any trouble insuring those.
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3MPS, 5k would get you a Mk1, best part of 500 a year in road tax.
A 6 you say... bit bigger than a focus but does fall into a low insurance group for the car

Acme said:
- Hatchback (Focus-ish sized)
- No more than £5000 (can be stretched if my employment stead is decent in the new year, and I save more)
- Must be quick (lets say sub 8.5s 0 - 60) - 6.4
- Petrol - Lots of it :p (I'm currently sitting at 20.2l/100m which I think is just over 20mpg)
- Must handle well - Yup
- Must be reasonably comfortable - Very :)
- Must look good, to me. Prepare for chronic fussyness! - horses for courses
- Must be as reliable as can reasonably be expected - Any car if looked after
- Parts must not cost an absolute bomb, if possible - some bits might
- Nothing before a 54 plate please - 55-57 was all I think
- Must feel quite "premium" -
- Must be available in or near budget without "moon miles" (which to me is over 100K) 5K would get you a very nice one
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Over the usual gubbins...

Bose Stereo
Full leather interior
Electric seat adjustment
Built in Satnav (option)
Parking Sensors (option)

Early 06 models and you'll see 265 a year road tax, anything after that is 465.

For the looks...
Came in Black, Grey, Silver, Red.

Plenty pics of 6's and 3's: Here

Try getting an insurance quote on one :)
 
The problem with the 3MPS is the interior, it's absolutely dire. I know no car in this class is exactly going to offer Bentley style interior design but the Mazda 3 is especially bad.
 
Both are electric Howard. The focus of the two is less feelsome in my experience.

I think a lot here underestimate the benefits of wise suspension tuning. It counts for more than bhp in many respects. As does braking improvements. The focus here has admittedly got the advantage in stock form from my experience.

Have you experience with the focus ST Fox? You mention you've read claims of it being good, I'll admit that it certainly isn't terrible, but I wouldn't mark it in the handling elite of hot hatches. A Renault Sport 200 Clio for example has a lot more in the way of driver communication and feedback than an ST.

In my view it was a cumbersome car when compared to similar cars I was considering at the time of purchase.
An RS Clio 200
An EP3 Civic
A Focus ST mk2

I have no doubt that given both cars on a timed stretch of road or circuit that the ep3 would be significant.

I've driven both and am merely offering my opinion based on driving them extensively on the same day, driving the EP3 as a daily for two years, driving the focus a few times whilst owning an EP3 and driving an EP3 on track with a heavily modified Mountune ST driven on track by a Donington regular.
 
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