AMD Radeon R9 390X Arrives In 1H 2015 – May Feature “Hydra” Liquid Cooling

[pgi947]

Aio cooler on stock reference would be pointless, add cost and push customers away. The biggest buyers of ref cards are those on multi card setups and those on water. Aio coolers appeal to neither of these.

 

[_Alatar_]

AMD are not going to make a 500mm GPU

They already did, it just hasn't come out yet because it's not quite ready yet. Same with GM200.

Besides that your story is 6 Months old , see here,

No it's barely over 2 months old

http://videocardz.com/51021/amd-gcn-update-iceland-tonga-hawaii-xtx

i think the latest information is far more relevant that something dug up from the neolithic layer of the ground.

Actual proof > random guess by a wccf writer

Right now AMD have a GPU thats a bit slower than the GTX 980, they are not going to go for a GPU thats much more expensive to produce and has little to no more impact than the 290X, especially at a time when 20nm should be available.

500mm^2+ at 28HPM isn't going to be barely faster than hawaii, it'll be plenty faster.

And yes AMD is going to make a GPU that's more expensive to produce. Actually they have already had everything on that front locked in for months because we already know that the chip taped out, how big it is, and that it's going to be using watercooling.

It's coming and it's expensive to manufacture both for cooling and the chip itself.

Even if your slide was the 390X or in anyway true, its not anymore. new information is available, keep up man....

If you think this is how it works you clearly don't understand the semiconductor industry.

That slide is about tape outs, the smaller chip is tonga, which already came out as we all know and the bigger chip will also come out but it'll take a bit of time. We also know that GM200 has taped out as well. The next GPUs by AMD and NV are already locked in aside from BIOS specifics etc. They cant really change anything at this point. They made the choice ages ago and now all they can do is produce the thing they chose or completely skip a generation because changing a chip drastically and bringing it out on a new process etc. will take pretty much a year. Hell, a pure new tapeout to launch is going to be 6+ months for high end chips.

There's a famous quote about the semiconductor industry:

“Building semiconductors is like playing Russian roulette. You put a gun to your head, pull the trigger, and find out four years later if you blew your brains out.”

And when it comes to GM200 and AMD's 500mm^2 chip at 28HPM both companies are way, way past pulling the trigger. All that's left now is for us to see if they actually did blow their brains out.


...


Also as a sidenote there's no actual info or proof anywhere about the 390X being on 20nm. None. One of the more inexperienced writers on wccf just wrote in his article that it was going to be 20nm. Not even the sources he was referencing said anything about 20nm.

So you'll excuse me while I (and others) focus on actual information such as the chip tapeout list posted above.

 

[Kaapstad]

Kaap how about doubling up on the 285 if they use 20nm, if 20nm is any good?
3584 cores 224 tu's 64rops 512 memory bus. Basically 285 cf performance -/+ on a single gpu.

Considering 6970 at 40nm 1536 :96:32. to the 28nm 7970 was only 2048 :128:32,
Then 700 cores higher than a 290x would be achievable surely,

Maxwell looks scary if they can scale up the gtx 980 by x2.

I did think this idea myself and made several posts about it, unfortunately for AMD when you see Maxwells TDP and efficiency for the number of transistors used it totally blows away anything the red team have got at the moment. A 290X packs 6.2 billion and a GK110 card 7 billion, a 980 outperforms both and only needs 5.2 billion transistors to do it. This is a killer before we get into heat or power consumption.

Until AMD come up with a completely new architecture it is a case of

Anything AMD can do Maxwell can do better.

Maxwell efficiency is the killer it is a bit like engine tuning, to increase horsepower you need to increase efficiency as well (unless you want to burn loads of fuel).

yes but AMD can do the same too, the trouble is the 390x is probably nearly finished............so if they're talking about hybrid water it must be running too hot.....because you'd only ever put an ugly 120mm rad on a card if you really had to !!!!

it's strange how AMD cards looked really good last week, but very old today.....esp the 295X2

Your own post shows that AMD have not done so because of the heat output if true.

AMD could also build a GPU that's as fast as a 295x2 on 20nm.

Nvida could maybe add another 20% more shader cores on 28nm compared to the 980?

In the long term AMD could but in the short term I don't think so as the TDP and heat output of Maxwell has got them on the backfoot and this won't change for quite a few months.

 

[~Mike~]

Aio cooler on stock reference would be pointless, add cost and push customers away. The biggest buyers of ref cards are those on multi card setups and those on water. Aio coolers appeal to neither of these.

Exactly! This is what DM doesn't get.

 

[Kaapstad]

Exactly! This is what DM doesn't get.

+1

I am not going to want to rip off an expensive but inefficient AIO water cooler to put on a waterblock.

I love the cheap nasty coolers on the reference 290Xs and they are great value for money, I also have the perfect use for them, back in the boxes they came in.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I have been building PCs since 2003/2004,and was interested in computer tech for years before and I have NEVER even seen this amount of doom and gloom even when Nvidia had the horrendous FX and AMD had the R300(9700 PRO) out.

Heck when Fermi was months late,had huge dies,was hot and consumed so much power,I never even saw so much doom mongering on this very forum.

Looking at the last few years of GPU releases.

2002-2003 ATI is doomed due to the cancelation of the 8500XT and Nvidia having the TI4200 and TI4600

2003-2004 Nvidia is doomed since the R300 is first to DX9 and faster than the FX series.

2004-2005 ATI is doomed since the 6000 series Nvidia cards support DX9C and they don't. Nvidia is lower power consumption.

2005-2006 Shifts between ATI is doomed and Nvidia is doomed.

2006-2007 ATI is doomed as the G80 and G92 have better performance and lower power consumption than the HD2000 and HD3000 series

2008-2009 ATI is first doomed since they having nothing to compete with the GT200. Then AMD launches the R700,and now Nvidia is doomed as Nvidia has to price cut huge chips against AMD ones which are smaller

2009 - 2010 Nvidia is doomed since ATI/AMD is first to DX11,has lower power consumption and smaller dies than the GTX400 series. Although soon with the GTX460 series,AMD is doomed.

2010 -2011 AMD is partially doomed since they don't have the fastest card anymore,and Nvidia has better tessellation

Late 2011 to early 2012. AMD is doomed due to the HD7970 and even more doomed with the GTX680.

Late 2012 to middle 2013. AMD is doomed as they have nothing to compete with once the Geforce Titan and GTX780 are released

Late 2013. AMD is still doomed with the R9 290 and R9 290X releases,since Nvidia quickly launched the GTX780TI and the AMD cards have black screens,throttle and run too hot and explode all the time.

Late 2012 to 2013. Nvidia is doomed due to AMD winning console contracts.

Early 2014. AMD is doomed due to the GTX750TI

Late 2014. AMD is doomed due to the GM204.

Potential next doom point - Nvidia releases 20NM GM200/GM210 in small quantities at £1000 and even if AMD has the fastest card in the R9 390X at £500 before then is still doomed.

That was repeated earlier in the other thread,and some of the people in this thread are going on and on about doom like a broken record.

It seems quite a number of you have only been building PCs for a few years,so its hilarious really.

Again people are forgetting the following that I and others have posted in the other thread and this thread:

Your working from the assumption that AMD will simply die shrink thier existing GPU's, that they will have none of their own efficiency improvements ready by then, or if they do they will not use them.

That was in the Anandtech Beema review this year. What features do you think Maxwell has to save power?? Look at the slide again. Lets not bother,since it must be magical pixie dust,right??

OFC,ignore that since it fits into the whole AMD is doooooooooooooooooooooomed scenario very well.

Its like bloody tabloid readers here. I thought some of you were meant to be enthusiasts, there is plenty of info out there on what both companies are doing and what tech they are trying to implement - its not even hidden.

Plus,history is on my side regarding this,as shown by the history of both companies.

And Boomstick is right,its not whether AMD can implement such tech,but WHEN and they need to with the further APU releases like Carrizo and beyond,which are concentrating on improving performance/watt.

 

[Kaapstad]

And Boomstick is right,its not whether AMD can implement such tech,but WHEN

+1

AMD are not doomed they are just out of step with NVidia, in 12months it could be the other way round.

 

[andybird123]

The only person who keeps regurgitating "AMD is doomed" is CAT
No one is saying that, only that it might be a difficult time ahead for AMD, not that they are doomed

Histrionics much

 

[bemaniac]

I don't have room for 3 120m water coolers in my case........for trifire.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The only person who keeps regurgitating "AMD is doomed" is CAT
No one is saying that, only that it might be a difficult time ahead for AMD, not that they are doomed

Histrionics much

Its the people like you who keep on going on with your histrionics on about AMD cannot compete with Maxwell,ie,AMD are doomed. Yet the same people keep ignoring the following slide repeatedly:

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t364/Hunbug76/LL_zps4b5604d6.jpg

That is from the Anandtech Beema review from April:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...hitecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview

That tech is being integrated along the whole range of BOTH AMD CPU and GPUs.

Just like Tegra has helped influence Maxwell.

But the problem is that you and others are so engrossed in the GPU microcosm you cannot even see the bigger picture here in any sort of way and its liked blinkered vision.

But no OFC just ignore all of that - it makes for a better doom story.

Have you even bothered to look at the differences between Maxwell and Kepler??

Then look at the above slide again afterwards.

In fact the lot of you don't bother,its less effort.

PS:

I am being incredibly sarcastic if you don't get it by now with the "dooooooooooooooooooooooooomed" posts.

It comes from actually having followed internet threads of almost every major GPU launch since 2003/2004.

 

[ubersonic]

A 290X has 2816 Stream Processors, on the same sort of die size (438mm^2) @ 20nm the 390X could have 5632 Stream Processors, be that as it may, with HBM the 390X could make the 295X2 at its best possible CF scalling look like a 280X in comparison to a 290X. An absolute MONSTER!

But the gap between the 680 and 780ti was even bigger than the 280X/290X, so if the gap between 980 and 980ti is the same then that puts it ahead of the 390X if what you say is accurate.

Either way it doesn't really matter, AMD are back in the game (or will be in half a year) that's the important thing, 2015 is looking to be good for the consumer

 

[~Mike~]

I haven't said AMD are doomed.

It would be very foolish to say AMD are doomed at this stage, they just might come out with something that will beat NV hands down.

Time will tell.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

But the gap between the 680 and 780ti was even bigger than the 280X/290X, so if the gap between 980 and 980ti is the same then that puts it ahead of the 390X if what you say is accurate.

Either way it doesn't really matter, AMD are back in the game (or will be in half a year) that's the important thing, 2015 is looking to be good for the consumer

If the rumours of the die size are correct(GM200/GM210 approaching 600MM2 to 650MM2 on 28NM,unless Nvidia do a limited 20NM run),Titan II is probably going to be faster anyway. I really doubt AMD is going to go much above 500MM2 for the R9 390X,especially when the other leak from Synapse was 350MM2(and it was with a few percent) and was correct. At that point you are looking at maybe 20% bigger overall for the GM200/GM210. The GK110 is nearly about 30% larger than Hawaii,so no wonder its faster overall.

Even if AMD were to match or get close to a GM200/GM210 with similar power consumption(or slightly higher),the chip will run hotter as a result.

So its quite possible AMD is making sure the reference R9 390X can boost high consistently ,so needs the AIO water cooler to make sure this happens.

Look at Haswell and IB,even with delids they are hotter running than SB,and power consumption has dropped,but the chips are much smaller which is not helping.

 

[andybird123]

Where have I said AMD cannot compete ever?
Another wall of text based on a massive strawman.

Are you sure you arent secretly charlie?

All ive said is that AMD are in a tricky position right now with (seemingly) nothing to counter, with rumours that the card that is going to counter is watercooled - and lots of people dont like the idea of water coolers

You can go ahead and say its sarcasm, but then why use it as the entire (strawman) basis of your responses, no one is saying AMD is doomed, people are asking for AMD to give us a hint of their next move because a strong response means competition means good for consumers

 

[ubersonic]

PS:

I am being incredibly sarcastic if you don't get it by now with the "dooooooooooooooooooooooooomed" posts.

It comes from actually having followed internet threads of almost every major GPU launch since 2003/2004.

The irony to the sarcasm is that all the people who said ATi were "doooooooomed" actually turned out to be correct

 

[old gamer]

If amd or nvidia are to be doomed then we are all doomed, with only one player in the graphics market prices will rocket

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The irony to the sarcasm is that all the people who said ATi were "doooooooomed" actually turned out to be correct

 

[andybird123]

If amd or nvidia are to be doomed then we are all doomed, with only one player in the graphics market prices will rocket

If AMD were doomed then youd also have no price competition for Intel... oh no, wait...

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Where have I said AMD cannot compete ever?
Another wall of text based on a massive strawman.

Are you sure you arent secretly charlie?

All ive said is that AMD are in a tricky position right now with (seemingly) nothing to counter, with rumours that the card that is going to counter is watercooled - and lots of people dont like the idea of water coolers

You can go ahead and say its sarcasm, but then why use it as the entire (strawman) basis of your responses, no one is saying AMD is doomed, people are asking for AMD to give us a hint of their next move because a strong response means competition means good for consumers

So now you call me charlie - which you have called me before,when I disagreed with you about something(it was about scaling of uarchs) and it seems to be your standard response to these things.

I like how you ignore on purpose all the infomation posted and then accuse other people of being anti-Nvidia(hence the charlie reference since he hates Nvidia,so you can use that strawman to stop people posting). So bascially you are the one who is full of strawmans and then crying that others are full of strawmans,and then pretending you don't use strawmans.

LOL,I own a Nvidia card too.

BAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA!

 

[pgi947]

AMD ARE DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!