Tory Government to take from the poor to give to the old?

People seem to forget, or don't even realise, that most people this will affect are actually 'hard working families' and not 'spongers'
You would almost think the conservatives don't actually want to win the next election. I wonder if someone will leave another 'there's no money left lol' note on the table.
 
Don't forget the rhetoric from the last campaign/few years the Tories have been in has been "to support hard working families" as they are the backbone of the country...

Well, that lasted a long time didn't it Dave....
 
However I'd prefer to cut other budgets first, e.g. military, and change to law to force large tax avoiders to pay more.

Tax avoiding is tricky, and not illegal. This can be blamed on how complex our tax system is and the loopholes that exist.

By 'large' it means targetting the wealthy. Thing with taxing the rich more is they have the capability to up sticks and move. Also the means to avoid tax if they feel it warrented so.

Tax is a funny thing. If people think they are being taxed a fair amount, the vast majority will happily pay it (you will always get the greedy minority) However start taxing people unfairly, and even the honest ones will get fed up and go elsewhere or look for ways round it.

Rather get a percentage of something, than a higher percentage of nothing.
 
Just wondering what the general OCUK consensus is on the Chancellor's announcement yesterday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29402844

Working tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit will be frozen for two years, whilst pension rises will be "protected". No attempts made to cut the pension benefit, even to the richest pensioners.

Low-income Working families stand to lose in the region of £400-£500 per year through the freeze, according to Conservative officials (a working couple with one child, with each earning £13,000 a year, would lose £44 a year in child benefit and £310 a year in tax credits. A household with a single earner and two children would lose £75 a year in child benefit and £420 in tax credits.)

It reminded me a little of the "bedroom tax". A policy which I, somewhat, felt was not unreasonable in theory (assuming, unrealistically, that smaller houses were actually available to give people the choice to downsize and avoid the "tax"), but which was undermined by the exemption give to (of course) OAPs. OAPs who, often, are living in family council houses long after their children have left.

I can understand why a Tory government might make such moves - a very large and vocal part of the Tory vote is at or near pension age, whilst the young don't vote as much, don't vote blue as much and, for under 18s, who will be hit hardest by cuts to family income, are not allowed to vote.

But I can't understand why the general public accept such regressive policies. Why do we pump so much cash into an unproductive, relatively wealthy section of society when the opportunity is there to assist current and future generations to be more productive and engaged with society?

So, GD, what do you think?

TLDR:
Is it fair and equitable to reduce income for poor working families whilst protecting income for all pensioners, a wealthier demographic?


I work in the Civil service not had a rise since 2011... last year saw 10% real terms cut in salary and benefits

Why should those not working not feel the pain as well?
 
Welfare state is a mess. There is zero incentive to get off benefits and work hard, they just penalize you.

I am working 48 hours a week and confess that this week I will probably have to use a food bank. I have no credit, expensive cars or flashy flat screen TV.

My situation is because of the ludicrous red tape they put on everything. My disabled partner moved in at the beginning of the month. The idea was so she could come off ESA and I would support her with her children with the help of tax credits.

This kind of thing should be encouraged as she gave up her local authority house, which means no housing benefit, ESA and other benefits.

In reality we have been left broke and I am terrified this week I want have the money to travel to work. All because we have been totally cut off everything and have a mountain of forms to fill in, which take two weeks just to get to you then up to 6 weeks to then process.

We have to wait but the people you have to pay refuse to wait. I have had a warning on my tenancy for being a few quid short on the rent last week and no idea what I will do this week.

Personally I don't care about the freeze. All I wont is to be able to feed my family after working 48 hours. The whole welfare state needs scrapping and starting again.

Drop the pointless administration, ie spending two hours on the phone giving all your details to only have to do it again when the forms come out.

Sorry I am furious and very worried today so I had to rant.
 
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I work in the Civil service not had a rise since 2011... last year saw 10% real terms cut in salary and benefits

Why should those not working not feel the pain as well?

Don't you see?

It's two sides of the same coin. Your pay cut is part of a general package of cuts. Support one, and you tacitly support the other. You're falling for the PR, basically, in calling for an eye for an eye.

Should the public sector be seeing a pay freeze after we left recession behind in 2012? no. It's ********. Instead of calling for more cuts, you should be stood by a burning oil drum in a donkey jacket and fingerless gloves campaigning to have these cuts stopped.
 
I work in the Civil service not had a rise since 2011... last year saw 10% real terms cut in salary and benefits

Why should those not working not feel the pain as well?

What's amusing about the post you've quoted, is that the key word in it has even been underlined for you, and yet you've still missed it ;)
 
Low levels of inflation is preferable to zero inflation. There are various reasons for that but, in simple terms, it keeps spending and investment "ticking over".

It's an imprecise science, managing the money supply/inflation, and a zero-target would risk slipping into deflation, which is very destructive (people save instead of spending - because of the increase in spending power that brings - which increases deflation, and it's a hard cycle to break)


And what of the more-than-50% of the households who are affected by this freeze who are working families? "hard-working-families", if you are a right-wing soundbite fan. What is their incentive?

They are working as hard as they can, and are relying on tax credits to top up their low incomes to afford to live in a country where prices are pushed up by means outside their control (and often to the benefit of wealthier members of society)

And why are we giving "incentives" to people to stop working at 65 anyway? What benefit does that give?

I never said anything against people who get benefits for working, but it should be time limited as an incentive to break out of poverty - i.e. incentives for night school, on the job training etc.

I accept some people will not break out but where is the tiping point between the hard working who pay there own way and get shafted by the under classes?
 
Welfare state is a mess. There is zero incentive to get off benefits and work hard, they just penalize you.

I am working 48 hours a week and confess that this week I will probably have to use a food bank. I have no credit, expensive cars or flashy flat screen TV.

My situation is because of the ludicrous red tape they put on everything. My disabled partner moved in at the beginning of the month. The idea was so she could come off ESA and I would support her with her children with the help of tax credits.

This kind of thing should be encouraged as she gave up her local authority house, which means no housing benefit, ESA and other benefits.

In reality we have been left broke and I am terrified this week I want have the money to travel to work. All because we have been totally cut off everything and have a mountain of forms to fill in, which take two weeks just to get to you then up to 6 weeks to then process.

We have to wait but the people you have to pay refuse to wait. I have had a warning on my tenancy for being a few quid short on the rent last week and no idea what I will do this week.

Personally I don't care about the freeze. All I wont is to be able to feed my family after working 48 hours. The whole welfare state needs scrapping and starting again.

Drop the pointless administration, ie spending two hours on the phone giving all your details to only have to do it again when the forms come out.

Sorry I am furious and very worried today so I had to rant.

Why don't you move to a cheaper part of the country if you salary cannot support your family?

Sussex is expensive...
 
Why don't you move to a cheaper part of the country if you salary cannot support your family?

Sussex is expensive...

Assuming he is able to find job in a cheaper part of the country (which doesn't pay a lower wage to reflect the fact it's in a cheaper part of the country).

Where does he get the £1-2k minimum required to move?
 
The main problem is gordon browns gerrymandering of the benefit system.

Socialist mantra "two people in the same job get paid the same"............ except one is unmarried and no children, one has a wife and two children."

Solution. Tax both to the hilt, take some tax from the single man to give to the married one and his family.

Result. Too high taxes, government and beaurocracy.

The benefit system has risen faster than earnings for a long time, and a freeze for two years will help to address this.

In the absence of comparable policy from Labour this seems a goer to me.
 
I'm quite happy with these policies, don't have an issue with benefits being frozen and the cap on benefits being reduced to £23k... Don't like it then go get a job... the freeze/cap doesn't affect disaled people etc...

The card is perhaps a good idea too - if people are poor partly because they can't control their basic finances then a card that stops them blowing their benefits on fags/beer/gambling is a step in the right direction... Plenty of kids in the UK go without breakfast even - far too many deadbeat patents can't prioritise their spending - throwing more money at these people is inefficient and wasteful, controlling their spending is a reasonable step.
 
Same old tories really. Nothing changes I doubt labour will help the working people much either. Unless you are rich or very poor you're basically screwed by the government
 
I'm quite happy with these policies, don't have an issue with benefits being frozen and the cap on benefits being reduced to £23k... Don't like it then go get a job... the freeze/cap doesn't affect disaled people etc...
.

And what of the more than 50% of households affected by the freeze who are already working?
 
Assuming he is able to find job in a cheaper part of the country (which doesn't pay a lower wage to reflect the fact it's in a cheaper part of the country).

Where does he get the £1-2k minimum required to move?

save up? It seems like he is buggered in my new society, but the collective is better off, so...
 
Assuming he is able to find job in a cheaper part of the country (which doesn't pay a lower wage to reflect the fact it's in a cheaper part of the country).

Where does he get the £1-2k minimum required to move?

Stamp duty.
Solicitor fees.
Moval fees.

Suppose it can all come from downsizing your house...

But then you are just poorer anyways.

If you can't afford food, moving somewhere else in the country isn't going to change things, food doesn't vary in price across the country, really.
 
save up? It seems like he is buggered in my new society, but the collective is better off, so...

That's a great attitude to have. :rolleyes:

What do you do when "The Collective" decides they are better off without you?

Stamp duty.
Solicitor fees.
Moval fees.

Suppose it can all come from downsizing your house...

But then you are just poorer anyways.

If you can't afford food, moving somewhere else in the country isn't going to change things, food doesn't vary in price across the country, really.

He's renting, so £2-300 fees, 1 month's rent up front, 1-2 months rent for deposit, that's £1-2k already, renting a van and moving everything is another couple of hundred depending how far he moves, yeah, he'll probably get his old deposit back after a few weeks, but that doesn't help in the interim period, especially when he's struggling to buy food, and some moron comes out with the suggestion of "save up" :rolleyes:
 
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I don't have an issue with them freezing benefits. Why should people who are not working get a rise every year when those who work do not in the current economic climate.

Don't like it, get a job ... although half of them probably are on the fiddle anyway in some way ...
 
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