Paramedics leaving the NHS in droves

[Randell Floyd]

A question for those in the service.

What can be done to improve things?

The biggest quick win for us as Paramedics would be a proper call taking system, meaning a massive amount of our work could be downgraded or diverted, meaning we're responding to accidents and emergencies.


I had a visitor from an European Country a year or so ago (Dutch or Swedish I think) and there call takers are mainly made up of Paramedics who are entering the twilight years of their careers, or in fact younger staff who are not longer able to carry out their duties fully on the road. The system seemed light years ahead of ours. They also noted that from a primary school level, people are empowered to look after themselves.

There you have proper trained staff with years of experience at their disposal, asking the right questions, not an untrained staff members, allowing a computer system to select a response category that fools itself into upgrading everything as the questions it ask's are leading.


We need to implement a first aid/general health care as a GCSE for children. That's the only way I can see us helping the next generation to help themselves and the Country. We now have a massive younger generation who have been raised on a supermarket 24 hour mentality, calling us for minor ailments they've had for 3 weeks, with no self care having taken place or any thought to having dialled 999 at 4am.

We could also simply, stop being so risk averse. There comes a time, where we all as tax payers need to stop and think....how much money do we spend on attending to these risks? Cold heartedly, many more lives would be saved if we didn't try and save everyone.

We need to stop doing a lot of our CPR, most people we go to are very old and are all but dead, yet we work on them for a fair amount of time with a lot of resources. It normally ends up with us arriving in hospital, and as our care is pretty advance, the Dr in charge will call it without even a compression being done.


If fact I could go on and on.

 

[Randell Floyd]

I can't think of much worse than being stuck in a queue with a dying patient in my vehicle. I know the english like queues and all that but hospital ER not the place for them.

I can't speak for over the border in Wales and I don't get there very often for truly ill patients, but everywhere else I've worked, if you're dying we've called ahead to A&E to tell them of our impending arrival and I've only maybe 2-3 times not had staff ready for us. The chances are higher if we've called ahead and it's not a case of you dying, say a M.I., CVA or SOB, but even then it's not a case of queuing for long with a very poorly patient.

Although I must point out, some hospitals are a lot worse than others!

 

[Randell Floyd]

If anyone wants to read a really good blog with direct blogs about the issues discussed here, have a read of http://www.tryingmypatients.co.uk/

 

[Nitefly]

I think most people would agree that the majority of essential medical staff are criminally underpaid, particularly paramedics and nurses.

 

[Werewolf]

And what's this got to do with Cameron?

999 calls increasing year on year at a higher rate than ambulance staff and has been for over a decade. with last year 999 calls being much higher than expected.

Or was Cameron in power for the last decade plus?

Aye, I remember reading a very good blog for a few years by a London ambulance driver who from memory was quite clear, the pressure the service was under, was unsustainable and the staff were generally treated quite poorl.
For example for a health related service it seemed that they didn't particularly care about the health of it's staff, or understand that shift work combined with constant contact will sick/infectious people leads to higher sickness than you find in office staff for the same organisation*.
Also it seemed even back then that the service was cutting back on standards of training (because they didn't have the money/staff to cover refresher courses for certain skills, they simply stopped training new staff in them), and the number of vehicles that were not actually fully equipped with basic stuff that was meant to be there was high.

This is going back about 8-10 years, I think the blogger went back to being a Nurse before the last election because he couldn't stand it any longer/his health was being affected.


*Or that there are various problems that you get regardless of how well your "safe lift" training is, when there are just two people and they've got to safely (for the patient) get someone up/down multiple flights of stairs in a hurry.

 

[Sin_Chase]

The Ambulance Service has also 'taken on' the role of community psychiatry, urgent care, social work and safeguarding. I say 'taken on', in reality these roles were forced on us during the Labour years when money was being poured on the NHS - a big increase in management but not many workers.

This. As have the other emergency services and every single public facing government agency.

It's become ridiculous - Everyone is expected to be a Social Worker these days.

 

[Medallion man]

My sister just left the London ambulance service she was a paramedic

Terrible working hours. Terrible pay and Taking sick leave is frowned upon even when genuinely ill.
.

Sounds like a job working in a supermarket.
Put it down to low morale and don't forget targets must be....SOD TARGETS AND PROFITS!!! AS LONG AS PEOPLE LEAVE HOSPITAL ALIVE TAHT'S ALL THA MATTERS!!
It all boils down to targets and how many hospital board members (HOSPITALS ARE NOT BIG COMPANIES FFS!!) actually know about medicine?

 

[grumpysculler]

Personally I believe the introduction of a refundable deposit system at the point of call is the only way forward. Refundable if admission and treatment beyond over the counter/home remedies is required.

How would that work? Is a bystander expected to assess what treatment is required? Should we not call 999 in case we get charged for someone else's problem?

I've called an ambulance twice in my life. The first time, I woke up to a loud noise to find someone barely conscious in our front garden. Probably ****ed out of his skull, but how am I meant to know? Ambulance came, established that he was simply blind drunk with no other risk and they took him to his door which turned out to be around the corner. Both the 999 operator and the ambulance crew wondered if the police would have been a better bet, but the barely conscious state of the fool swung it to ambulance.

Second time, someone had a seizure beside a canal. 999 operator made clear that this wasn't an emergency but a paramedic car came 20 minutes later. Paramedic wanted to take the guy to A&E for a checkup, but he refused and finished off his run!

Why should I have paid in either of those cases? Was either of them wrong to call 999? I'd do it again in either circumstance and the paramedics were clear that 999 was the correct thing to do. So why should I have to pay?

They also noted that from a primary school level, people are empowered to look after themselves.<snip>

We need to implement a first aid/general health care as a GCSE for children. That's the only way I can see us helping the next generation to help themselves and the Country.

I'm not sure I would make it a GCSE, but I agree with the sentiments. The problem is that you would need to spend money now but it would be 20-30 years until you see much benefit. Not many politicians can look that far ahead. Unless it is something big and shiny like HS2!

 

[SkodaMart]

UKIP are the Daily Mail of politics.

Well that shows what little you know.

2 years ago, when the BNP mentioned immigration, they were branded bigots and racists.
Exactly the same thing happened with UKIP, closet bigots and racists.

The FACT is they were both 100% right.

Immigration will be one of the biggest points of the next general election.

Already the major parties that name called and scoffed at UKIP are adopting stricter immigration policies as they know this is a MAJOR concern of many voters in the UK. I find it pathetic that the 'goal posts' move so easily.
As they say one week is a long time in politics, but for views to become polar opposite of what they were in just a few years is pathetic all these politicians are doing is telling you what you want to hear to feather their own nests.

It will only take a handful of elected UKIP politicians to make the changes that are required, the entire country will never see eye to eye on politics so it's foolish to assume that a UKIP vote is a wasted vote.

I was absolutely gutted to hear that UKIP lost in Heywood, one of the centres on the Pakistani child abuse scandal.

 

[Minstadave]

Well that shows what little you know.

2 years ago, when the BNP mentioned immigration, they were branded bigots and racists.
Exactly the same thing happened with UKIP, closet bigots and racists.

The FACT is they were both 100% right.

Damn you blew my mind - FACT.

 

[SkodaMart]

It'd be funny if it wasn't such nonsense.

Nonsense?

Yes the NHS has thrived under the recent Labour and Conservative governments.

Or maybe you are talking out of your hat?

 

[marmalade]

It does not appear to make much difference which party is in power the NHS goes from bad to worse. the nhs is the largest emplyer in the land awash in staff compared to Germany. Vast building filled with apparatniks producing nothing but the need for inflation proof pensions. Throwing more money at the NHS is like feeding donkeys sugar lump. People complain about the food but its a wonder that theire is any cash for such purposes after the billions spent on consultants (not the medical sort) But its all part of the UK! Tried getting into a tax office resently - local offices all closed- or getting anywhere on the phone /letter? The whole country is not fit for purpose.

 

[LordSplodge]

In the words of UKIP, National health service not International health service.

The influx of extra people coming into the country who hadn't paid a penny into the system was the nail in the coffin, then the Tory spending cuts is the hammer to knock it home.

They have saved my life 3 times now, God bless them all.

I know quite a few immigrants, because my daughter-in-law is a Polish immigrant. All of them have jobs and are paying tax and national insurance and have done so for the decade or so they have been here on average.

During the birth of my grandson the NHS a saved his and her life with emergency surgery. Are you saying that because she is an immigrant that she should not have been treated? Or treated and charged (despite paying NI)?


The NHS & Ambulance Service, have been underfunded, mismanaged for years. An ageing indigenous population and the reduction in access to GP services is the bigger issue here. Sure, immigration has also increased the strain.

However it appears that in any thread about services the views of some posters are that immigration is the only issue affecting things.

By the way, my long term medical conditions mean that even my high NI contributions haven't been nearly enough to cover the treatment I get. Should I be classed as a freeloader on the NHS a like the immigrants allegedly are?

 

[SkodaMart]

I know quite a few immigrants, because my daughter-in-law is a Polish immigrant. All of them have jobs and are paying tax and national insurance and have done so for the decade or so they have been here on average.

During the birth of my grandson the NHS a saved his and her life with emergency surgery. Are you saying that because she is an immigrant that she should not have been treated? Or treated and charged (despite paying NI)?


The NHS & Ambulance Service, have been underfunded, mismanaged for years. An ageing indigenous population and the reduction in access to GP services is the bigger issue here. Sure, immigration has also increased the strain.

However it appears that in any thread about services the views of some posters are that immigration is the only issue affecting things.

By the way, my long term medical conditions mean that even my high NI contributions haven't been nearly enough to cover the treatment I get. Should I be classed as a freeloader on the NHS a like the immigrants allegedly are?

Woah! Slow down a minute.
Isn't the UKIP policy to reduce immigration, allow us to choose who we need and who we don't need. Screen out criminals and 'health tourists'
I have nothing against any tax payer or ex-tax payer, such as the elderly using the NHS.
The problem is the NHS resources are finite, their budget is at breaking point.
There is too much demand on their services, the UK has too many people.

 

[SkodaMart]

Immigrants to the UK should be forced to take out health insurance.
Until they have contributed to NI for at least 2 years.

Not just claimed benefits for 2 years.

 

[snips86x]

Not sure if this has been posted but in relation to the paramedics:

Military personnel and police vans are being drafted in to help ambulance services affected by a public service workers strike on Monday.

About 130 military drivers will replace striking London Ambulance Service and North West Ambulance Service drivers, the Ministry of Defence said.

In London, 74 police vehicles will also be used for low-priority calls, a Metropolitan Police spokesman said.

Unison, whose members are striking over pay, called the move a "quick fix".

It said it had arranged emergency plans for Monday with all the other ambulance trusts in England.

Women in labour
Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote

The fact the government did not even try to talk to trade unions to arrange emergency cover in the capital is outrageous”

Christina McAnea, Unison
NHS workers in England will strike for four hours from 07:00 BST on Monday, with a number of public sector unions planning further industrial action over pay during the rest of the month.

One hundred military drivers will be drafted into London while 30 will assist ambulance services in the North West.

London Ambulance Service (LAS) has said patients in a life-threatening situation will still receive an ambulance response, but people with injuries such as minor breaks, or women in routine labour may not.

North West Ambulance Service has also warned that with a "substantial reduction in its workforce" there will be delays for some patients.

Police vehicles
LAS director of operations Jason Killens said: "We are expecting a significant number of our staff to take four hours of strike action.

"The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is providing 100 military drivers during the strike action. They will support our clinical staff by driving our vehicles to an incident while our medics look after the patient."

An MoD spokesman confirmed its involvement and said personnel from the Army, RAF and Navy would be involved.

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote

We cannot afford a pay rise in addition to increments without risking frontline jobs”

Department of Health
A spokesman for the Met Police said: "The LAS will attempt to deal with higher priority calls.

"Lower priority calls will be passed to 'double-staffed' police vehicles and an assessment made as to whether the patient requires transport to hospital or can obtain treatment any other way.

"If an ambulance is required, officers will wait with the patient until the ambulance arrives."

Merseyside Police will assist the ambulance service by making five police vehicles available for use with first-aid trained staff, a spokesman said.

Christina McAnea, Unison's head of health, said: "The fact the government did not even try to talk to trade unions to arrange emergency cover in the capital is outrageous.

"Instead they've decided to deploy military troops as a quick fix.

"We have agreed emergency plans with all the other ambulance trusts in England.

"So it is alarming that the capital's emergency service cannot cope with a four-hour stoppage when they have been given plenty of notice."

Action 'disappointing'
The Royal College of Midwives is also joining the action on Monday, in what will be the first walkout in its 133-year history.

The walkouts will be followed by four days of action short of a strike from Tuesday.

The government imposed a 1% cap on pay rises in 2012, which remains in place for many in the public sector.

A Department of Health spokesman said: "We are disappointed that trade unions are taking industrial action.

"NHS staff are our greatest asset, and we've increased the NHS budget to pay for over 12,500 more clinical staff since 2010.

"We cannot afford a pay rise in addition to increments - which disproportionately reward the highest earners - without risking frontline jobs."

 

[Destination]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29542387

It's when I read reports like this I just think how dare David Cameron make speeches like he did at the Conservative party conference claiming to be the saviour of the NHS.

How much more tax would you like to pay to rectify the issue scorza?
Or what other cuts would you make?
We still have a deficit borrowing isn't the answer, so how will you fix it?

 

[Destination]

Immigrants to the UK should be forced to take out health insurance.
Until they have contributed to NI for at least 2 years.

Not just claimed benefits for 2 years.

Apply it to our own citizens also, then the EU can't make a fuss, as long as you apply the rules at home, then you can apply it to anyone you like coming in from abroad.

 

[MrMoonX]

It's happenjng everywhere due to the government jihad on public sector workers. I'm alocal authority social worker. My pay has stagnated and my colleagues are leaving in droves to go agency/locum, why because your pay is so much more. Local authorities everywhere are desperate for social workers, but cannot recruit due to us being able to earn more on an agency. This is so short sighted as the councils spend ££££ in buying agency workers to paper the gaps. This ends up costing more in the long term than just paying us more! I blame the tories as usual

 

[phill1978]

you cant blame any particular party or person, this is the system we have. for as soon as people got comfy and stop fighting for workers rights the 'industrial machine started tearing those rights down and monetizing every aspect of human life. That's the key point of capitalism and corporatism. It will always be the same, politicians are front men/women that try keep the lid on society so you don't rock the corporate apple cart ((and if you were ultra rich you would want to keep it that way too, you all desire the latest gadgets, big houses, playboy women and flash cars.. ))

Of course, this is plainly getting harder for people to ignore and there are so many more people now .. so they build fear/threats and create a surveillance state.

The rich corporates have it. Game set and match.