its a complex problem, personally i don't think immigration is the issue but our outdated and broken benefits system.
Blaming immigrants is lazy and knee jerk.
Will UKIP win its first seat in parliament tonight?
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
its a complex problem, personally i don't think immigration is the issue but our outdated and broken benefits system.
Blaming immigrants is lazy and knee jerk.
Do you realise that none of what you've just said is factual? There's no proof that immigration within the EU has caused lower wages, lower standard of living or any other issues. In fact, evidence shows immigration within the EU has had a positive impact. Any problems that occured due to immigration are localised, the UK as a whole has only benefited from it.
That's why you keep hearing "racists", "xenophobes", rabble, rabble, there are no rational reasons to want to stop the EU freedom of movement so the underlying reasons must be irrational, ie. racism and/or xenophobia.
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Which unelected bureaucrats are you referring to? Which MEPs were unelected?
Oh, but oddly - they do.
You see, when UKIP boys voted to remove British protected fishing zones and actively supported allowing French and Spanish armada access to UK fishing waters, it was the other countries that stopped it and made sure interests of British fisheries remained intact.
Given opportunity to speak for British industry, when Nigel Farage was made a member of the European Fisheries committee for three years, he turned up to only one of 42 meetings, left half way through the plenary vote and then promptly resigned (from all Committees). Few months later he used both of the above as an example of EU attempting to "decimate British fishing industry".
Nigel Farage set up an offshore tax evasion scheme for himself, so its no surprise that when EU parliament voted for measures tackling tax evasion schemes, UKIP voted against it.
When EU parliament wanted better protection for holidaymakers buying package holidays abroad, UKIP voted no.
When EU parliament wanted better public access to EU documents, UKIP voted against increasing transparency.
When EU parliament wanted to improve protection for the regional produce, (basically preventing vendors to outsource "Newcastle Brown Ale" or "Stilton Cheese" to the cheapest foreign bidder), UKIP voted against it.
When EU parliament voted on EU motion to clamp down on wildlife crime and the illegal ivory trade, UKIP protected interests of poachers by voting against those measures (6 out of only 14 votes against).
UKIP also voted against safer lorries. Supported female genital mutilation by voting against zero tolerance resolution ( 7 out of just 13 votes were UKIP). They voted against equal pay for men and female workers. Voted against combating violence against women and marital rape. Voted against the removal of asbestos from all public buildings within the next 15 years with Steward Agnew claiming in media that white asbestos was "harmless". Voted against scrapping roaming charges within EU from December 2015. The list goes on.
Basically, if there was ever a common sense vote, that UKIP managed to attend (they do have highest absence statistics in EU parliament) - they would almost certainly oppose it. Each time other nations bailed you out.
You need to go back to wikipedia and read up on British immigration history, because the "closed door" policy you so yearn for, never existed. Also, immigration from outside of EU always far outweighed EU migration, and since UK is not part of Schengen agreement, it was always controlled internally. In the simplest words I can manage - it's a choice, not EU "using us as a dumping ground for immigrants".
This is totally untrue waffle, I expected better even from you!
We are Germany's biggest trading partner accounting for 14% of EU trade. If we leave Germany won't trade with us as we won't have free movement. Quite frankly if we leave the EU its a massive own goal
In an ideal world, where living conditions were the same in all parts of the world, then yes. In that case, we'd have a lot more people leaving this country. I for one would love to go live in Africa if such a world existed.
But it doesn't exist. Parts of the world such as the UK are much more desirable, but we simply cannot accommodate all the people who would choose to live here if they could. It's not racist to say that. There are limits. If we ignore what is reasonable we'll only hurt our country not benefit from it.
Meanwhile, ****hole countries like certain parts of Africa continue to experience massive unsustainable population growth. Millions want to leave and come here. Again it's not racist to want to impose limits. It's simply necessary.
Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world, as said. Much as I'd love Africa to really prosper, to have the same quality of life we do, it's proving to be an extremely slow process at best (impossible at worst). But we can't have open doors. We can't cope with all the world's poor.
The solution to immigration and inequality is to improve all the ****hole countries in the world and raise them up to our level (which in all likelihood would fall a little in the balancing act). I'm fully behind doing just that.
What I'm not behind is turning this country into a ghetto. Skilled immigration only, please. There are plenty of British chavs to do the unskilled work - we just need to get them off benefits (another totally broken system).
From just one of 100s of reports.
"EU membership has not given the UK any "insider advantages" in trade with other European countries, a report by social policy think tank Civitas says."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27284489
"EU benefits to British trade are 'imaginary'"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10807824/EU-benefits-to-British-trade-are-imaginary.html
The free movement argument is just silly. And here's why.
Arnis Zalkalns hello I would love to come to the uk. I did murder my wife, is it ok.
UK yes come on in and have a cup of tea, two sugars is it?
Before we joined the common market.
Arnis Zalkalns I would like to come to the uk, I did murder my wife is it ok.
UK-hell no. We don't want people like you here you may kill young girls. Now go away.
There are people that believe anything their government tells them. Sounds a bit like you
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Sounds like your typical head in the sand comment that we keep hearing time and again from the Tories and Labour
You haven't responded to my response to you, the yelling of racism and xenophobia is what is irrational
Unless of course you live in one of those areas where immigration is having a negative effect. I guess it is tough luck for them? Are they too xenophobic and/or racist if they complain? Obviously as a nice comfortable middle class person I benefit because I get cheaper goods and services as low skilled and semi skilled wages can be kept low and the overall benefit to the economy is positive so we can ignore the negatives entirely?
Living on actual benefits is almost impossible, especially to the hard of thinking who are condemned by their inadequacy to live on them, the people all the anti benefits folk are moaning about are either fraudsters or other types of criminals using criminal means of living, our benefit system is inadequate and punitive.
on the jobs front one sector i know for a fact which has been hit with immigration is security, i knew of one firm that by the admission of one of their supervisors tried to hire immigrants as it made hr problems happen less. and what he meant by problems was uniforms, health and safety and wages as a lot of them where paranoid about speaking to any sort of authority about it due to where they came from, this firm mainly hired africans.
so to hear immigrations had no effect on wages is utter rubbish.
as for it being reported unless someone at the place says something nothing will happen as if the employee's dont complain there cant be any issues.
so to hear immigrations had no effect on wages is utter rubbish.
as for it being reported unless someone at the place says something nothing will happen as if the employee's dont complain there cant be any issues.
The leftie tory voters on these forums dont want to hear about actual real life things. They do not see them so they do not exist... it is as simple as that.
Anyone who works in low paid jobs has seen first hand how the employment of immigrants has lowered the playing field and made you have to accept rubbish pay and conditions because there are plenty of guys/girls from abroad who will!.... never mind the fact that you get houses with 10+ men living in shifts who work for 5 years then go home to india and live like a prince. Because Mr Tory voter has never seen such things with his own eyes they simply do not exist and are a figment of you're imagination. When i worked in rochdale i KNEW a few lads who lived like this, literally a dozen or more men living in a terrace house who swapped in shifts and shared beds on a rota. Big pot of rice and curry on the cooker and almost no cost of living! i think each guy only had to pay about 20quid a week to live there. They would work and save for a few years then go back home to pakistan/india and get married. Of course if you live like that you can afford to get low pay, it makes no differance to you but as a "normal" person trying to pay rent and bills living maybe 2 to a house it is impossible to compete on wages.
You will get replies that simply dismiss anything they do not like to think about as "racist and bigotted" because it is far easier to do that than answer actual problems and admit they have no idea what to do.
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Past few years and yes they seem like wishy washy lefties compared to the thatcher years. Lib dems are dead to me now, they are literally a non entity.
Labour are just utter morons.... what else is left? who has the guts to stand up for the uk and stop all this politically correct nonsense from letting anyone take hard decisions.
The tories need to go back to how they WERE not what they have become. Cameron needs to go he is ineffective and impotent as a leader, he reacts rather then being pro active.
I thought the general thinking amongst political analysts was that this government was more right-wing than the Thatcher government e.g. Royal Mail privatisation - even Mrs T thought that was a privatisation too far.
Go on then, prove me wrong, enlighten me. Lets see, in example, the studies that show the devastating effects of EU immigrants in the UK. I showed you they have a net contribution to the budget, v0n showed you their laughable voting record of UKIP (when they show up to vote). Who exactly has their head in the sand here?
I do not see the relevance of your choices in life partners ("I have black friends, I'm not racist") so there's nothing to respond. Are you saying people who have partners of different ethnicities can't be racist of xenophobic? If you want your view to be considered rational, put forward a rational argument, based on facts and logic.
There were 2 Indian/African immigrants for every 1 EU immigrant in the last 10 years. If you're so worried about these Indians, what is the logic behind wanting to leave the EU? Wouldn't that mean more Indians would come?
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From just one of 100s of reports.
"EU membership has not given the UK any "insider advantages" in trade with other European countries, a report by social policy think tank Civitas says."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27284489
"EU benefits to British trade are 'imaginary'"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10807824/EU-benefits-to-British-trade-are-imaginary.html
The free movement argument is just silly. And here's why.
Arnis Zalkalns hello I would love to come to the uk. I did murder my wife, is it ok.
UK yes come on in and have a cup of tea, two sugars is it?
Before we joined the common market.
Arnis Zalkalns I would like to come to the uk, I did murder my wife is it ok.
UK-hell no. We don't want people like you here you may kill young girls. Now go away.
There are people that believe anything their government tells them. Sounds a bit like you
Civitas are a well known right wing think tank
funded by same people as tories and ukip just no!Also we contribute £12bn to the EU but it is worth £400bn to the economy in trade deals. The banks have said they will leave london if we exit. It's economic suicide and any sane person knows it
Your argument about free movement of people is flawed on that example, we don't know that guy has done anything yet or do you have insider info into the ongoing investigation of the murder of Alice?
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