HR, Gross misconduct and potential sacking

Diddums

Diddums

Diddums

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A colleague of mine is currently being investigated for gross misconduct, here's a recollection of what's happened and where he stands now:


Over a year ago, he was caught standing on a cabinet to fix a curtain rail. This was raised as an issue then but no further action was taken. Whether this went on record or not is not known.

A couple of weeks ago he was messing about on a trolley that they use to move heavy items around, and was caught by his supervisor.

The way they're trying to spin this is that the supervisor told him to get off the trolley and he refused and was causing a risk to himself and others.

In his subsequent investigational meeting with HR he explained that he has a phobia of mice and saw a mouse, hence why he jumped on the trolley.

The employee has a bit of a history of mentioning unsafe circumstances and working situations, something the supervisor mentioned as a snide comment when they came across each other in their day to day work.

The main question at this point is can this be weighed in as gross misconduct, and if so, what actions can he take to defend himself against it?

He has been employed at this firm for 6 years and has never had any issues other than the aforementioned cabinet.

So GD, any advice here? I've got him in touch with my union but they say that as the proceedings have already begun there is no much they can do at this point.

Cheers!
 
This would officially be his first recorded offence as the cabinet incident doesn't seem to have resorted in a verbal or written warning, from what I understand.

It all depends what he was doing on the trolley, if he was flying along and endangering other workers then yes GMC is possible, however if not I would be surprised if they pushed for it - if they do and he gets sacked plenty of employment law companies that would be all over the case for wrongful dismissal
 
In this scenario I would expect that the company would have to give you a written warning before dismissal. Instant dismissal is possible in extreme circumstances but this doesn't seem extreme to me.
 
"messing about on a trolley" You'd need to elaborate on this. The mouse thing sounds like a made up excuse, at least in the way you've worded the post.
 
Being bluntly honest here, his excuse sounds like BS (not saying it definitely is, but it certainly sounds like it!).

Whether it could be classed as gross misconduct would completely depend on what exactly this "messing around" was. If he was just sat on it then I doubt it, a warning would be more appropriate.

If he was jumping around on it, and "skating" around the workplace, then yes, potentially.
 
NexusK said:
"messing about on a trolley" You'd need to elaborate on this. The mouse thing sounds like a made up excuse, at least in the way you've worded the post.
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He's sat right next to me so here's his answer:

He was riding the trolley as if it was a skateboard, as many of us do. He has done this many times and has also been seen doing it by the supervisor, and it has never been an issue before.

The mouse thing is in fact a made up excuse to cover it up, and there is no going back on this statement as there is a witness who has testified to this as well.
 
Unless he's been on his supervisor's radar to sack (attitude or work performance issue) and this is the excuse he's trying to push for it to happen, I can never understand why companies would actively fire someone for minor issue (if what the OP mention is exactly that).

Firing someone with 6 years experience then hire someone later that they need to train again just makes no sense.

BS excuse or not, if this was OP's mate's first offence, he'll get a written warning.
 
Skidder said:
Sounds like a bit of a cretin, they probably just want shot of him.
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Thanks for your valued input on this matter, much appreciated.


Jones: That's my suspicion as well. The problem with this firm is that everything is fine for months and then suddenyl it's like there's a drama day or something and someone needs to feel the heat. It's almost like they use it as a tool to keep employees on their toes.

I dunno. I'll relay what you guys have said, he's a nice bloke and is in a bit of a rut at the moment as his missus isn't earning any cash (studying) so if he loses this job he's got nothing.
 
Diddums said:
Thanks for your valued input on this matter, much appreciated.


Jones: That's my suspicion as well. The problem with this firm is that everything is fine for months and then suddenyl it's like there's a drama day or something and someone needs to feel the heat. It's almost like they use it as a tool to keep employees on their toes.

I dunno. I'll relay what you guys have said, he's a nice bloke and is in a bit of a rut at the moment as his missus isn't earning any cash (studying) so if he loses this job he's got nothing.
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Lying (in the most pathetic and obvious way) during a disciplinary wasn't the smartest thing was it? In my experience if a company want you gone, it is better to find other work and leave.
 
What has the world come to!

I recall my Dad talking about the Albright and Wilson factory in the 1950's

Any young Man who ventured onto the (All female) factory floor would, as a matter of routine, be De bagged!

Riding on a trolley!

Jesus!

:(
 
Skidder said:
Lying (in the most pathetic and obvious way) during a disciplinary wasn't the smartest thing was it? In my experience if a company want you gone, it is better to find other work and leave.
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Probably not, but these are the cards on the table and unless you can add something a bit more constructive than "get shot" then feel free to leave this to those who do give a toss about others.

billy > very immature, but then again I doubt many can honestly say that they've not messed about or dome something stupid in life.

I'm just trying to help the guy out, this is noticeably breaking him.
 
Diddums said:
He's sat right next to me so here's his answer:

He was riding the trolley as if it was a skateboard, as many of us do. He has done this many times and has also been seen doing it by the supervisor, and it has never been an issue before.

The mouse thing is in fact a made up excuse to cover it up, and there is no going back on this statement as there is a witness who has testified to this as well.
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Just because everyone else does it doesn't make it a good idea, there's a high chance of injuring yourself or others or causing damage to company property pratting about on one of those things so it wouldn't surprise me if they use it as a reason to get rid of him and if you're going to come up with an excuse at least put some effort in!
 
I used ACAS when I was accused of gross misconduct ,ended up with a pre tribuneral payout ,but didn't get my job back
 
Diddums said:
He was riding the trolley as if it was a skateboard, as many of us do. He has done this many times and has also been seen doing it by the supervisor, and it has never been an issue before.
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This sounds like unsafe and dangerous behaviour, and may well be grounds for serious/gross misconduct. I don't know enough details of your work environment to say conclusively, but the kind of workspace that has trolleys for moving heavy things isn't the kind of workspace where I would expect people to be riding trolleys like skateboards. I suppose I'd expect a verbal or written warning to be issued first, but if you're doing something that's blatantly stupid and unsafe, I don't see what grounds there are to object really.

The mouse thing is in fact a made up excuse to cover it up.
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No ****, Sherlock.

Honestly, your mate sounds like a tool. His best approach as far as I can see would be to apologise profusely for being an idiot (whether he sticks to the stupid mouse story or not), suggest that he go on a H&S refresher course and accept some kind of warning.

And NOT do it again.
 
AJK said:
This sounds like unsafe and dangerous behaviour, and may well be grounds for serious/gross misconduct. I don't know enough details of your work environment to say conclusively, but the kind of workspace that has trolleys for moving heavy things isn't the kind of workspace where I would expect people to be riding trolleys like skateboards. I suppose I'd expect a verbal or written warning to be issued first, but if you're doing something that's blatantly stupid and unsafe, I don't see what grounds there are to object really.



No ****, Sherlock.

Honestly, your mate sounds like a tool. His best approach as far as I can see would be to apologise profusely for being an idiot (whether he sticks to the stupid mouse story or not), suggest that he go on a H&S refresher course and accept some kind of warning.

And NOT do it again.
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This is exactly what I've told him as well. Just go in and look sorry and pathetic and say you promise never to do it again etc etc and they might just let him off with a warning.

Our HR are lazy anyway, I'm sure a quick letter of warning is considerably easier for them than a sacking process.
 
Oh and in case anyone thinks he was flying inbetween desks with kittens and babies everywhere, he was in an empty corridor with nobody in sight. He was on the trolley for about 6-8 metres at a guess, nothing too heavy.

I'm not trying to stand up for him, just clear up any confusion as far as risk os concerned. The worst that could've happend was a sprained ankle or similar.
 
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