Poll: Student jailed for 9 months for "prank"

[Mynight]

Interesting results there Castiel.

 

[Castiel]

Interesting results there Castiel.

My wife also thought it was way overboard...I asked her what she would feel and do if it happened to her, and she said one thing she wouldn't do is call the Police...her words were...."probably just kick the daft **** in the nuts"..so there you go.

To be honest if someone did that to her and I found out I'd probably bury them under the nearest available patio.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

That's the underlying double standard here, isn't it?

It's just a prank until the prankee is your daughter/sister/wife and then you're loading your car with a pairing knife, a hatchet and 20 square metres of murder plastic.

 

[adam98150]

That's the underlying double standard here, isn't it?

It's just a prank until the prankee is your daughter/sister/wife and then you're loading your car with a pairing knife, a hatchet and 20 square metres of murder plastic.

You mean food wrap? Pretty sure it's called food wrap.

Although asking for "murder plastic" in a supermarket would be pretty entertaining.

 

[Castiel]

That's the underlying double standard here, isn't it?

It's just a prank until the prankee is your daughter/sister/wife and then you're loading your car with a pairing knife, a hatchet and 20 square metres of murder plastic.

That pretty much sizes it up...but then I'm not going to be entirely rational about it at the time. To put it into perspective, while I'm loading the car with my murder kit (which wouldn't include those things in your list), my wife would be telling (see 'Commanding') me to grow up and stop being ridiculous.

And believe me she is the more rational of the two us pretty much all the time.

Which is the point, it seems that the fellas look at this in a more personal way than the ladies when deciding whether it's a serious/moderate sexual (or not) assault or just a prank. They are all thinking how they would feel about it, while we are all feeling about how we would kick the living daylights out of who ever did it to her...

 

[gambitt]

That pretty much sizes it up...but then I'm not going to be entirely rational about it at the time. To put it into perspective, while I'm loading the car with my murder kit (which wouldn't include those things in your list), my wife would be telling (see 'Commanding') me to grow up and stop being ridiculous.

So what would be included in your "murder kit"? I envisage one of these:

 

[nikeair94]

That's the underlying double standard here, isn't it?

It's just a prank until the prankee is your daughter/sister/wife and then you're loading your car with a pairing knife, a hatchet and 20 square metres of murder plastic.

Don't go for Murder just a little common assault, once they hear what he done to your daughter/sister/wife judge might be lenient and hit you with the minimum sentence of 6 months, be out before the scum is!

 

[balky12]

That's the underlying double standard here, isn't it?

It's just a prank until the prankee is your daughter/sister/wife and then you're loading your car with a pairing knife, a hatchet and 20 square metres of murder plastic.

I'm not so sure. Maybe with some of you. But if my daughter/ sister was at uni and went to a house uni party, got so drunk that she passed out, and some kid in a drunken stupor donked his dong on her head I don't think I would want to murder the guy...

In fact, pretty sure I would laugh and tell her not to get so drunk in future that she passes out, as it could have been a lot worse than a quick donk on the head.

 

[elmarko]

We had a little discussion over lunch at work about this and surprisingly (or not as the case may be) all five women in our group thought the sentence was way overboard, while they said it was disgusting, none of them thought it was sexual assault, or even assault and two of them thought that it should not have been a matter for the police at all as they thought it was just drunken plebs being daft. On the other hand all of the blokes, except me, thought that he should have been banged up longer and a couple thought that it was akin to raping someone, which didn't go down too well with the ladies and at which point we changed the subject.

Go figure!

To be honest it doesn't surprise me that much.

To classify this kind of grossly offensive & insensitive idiocy as sexual assault/akin to rape as you said somebody did - somewhat degrades the experiences of the kind real sexual assault/rape which many women have had destroy their lives.

I'm of the thinking a lessor charge of assault would have been more fitting.

That's the underlying double standard here, isn't it?

It's just a prank until the prankee is your daughter/sister/wife and then you're loading your car with a pairing knife, a hatchet and 20 square metres of murder plastic.

Not really, I'd still think it was grossly offensive, insensitive & bang out of order in any situation, but that doesn't mean that I'd think it should be punishing that harshly.

Besides, all you are saying is that when the situation is that close people are incapable of being emotionally objective (which is hardly a revelation).

 

[TheVoice]

To be honest it doesn't surprise me that much.

To classify this kind of grossly offensive & insensitive idiocy as sexual assault/akin to rape as you said somebody did - somewhat degrades the experiences of the kind real sexual assault/rape which many women have had destroy their lives.

I'm of the thinking a lessor charge of assault would have been more fitting.

Not really, I'd still think it was grossly offensive, insensitive & bang out of order in any situation, but that doesn't mean that I'd think it should be punishing that harshly.

Besides, all you are saying is that when the situation is that close people are incapable of being emotionally objective (which is hardly a revelation).

What about how degrading it was to the victim?

 

[elmarko]

What about how degrading it was to the victim?

While the feelings of the victim matter, they are not the only factor to take into account.

Shaving off her hair would be degrading, as would somebody drawing on her face or doing any act to embarrass her in her sleep while recording it. The degrading part isn't intrinsically linked to it being classified as 'sexual'.

It is degrading yes, but there are also plenty of legal ways of degrading a person.

We can't have a criminal justice system directly linked to the feelings of the victim as we would have anything from the death penalty to no penalty for the same crimes - simply put we all react differently & really we can only expect people to react the same way a majority of the population would.

 

[RDM]

To be honest it doesn't surprise me that much.

To classify this kind of grossly offensive & insensitive idiocy as sexual assault/akin to rape as you said somebody did - somewhat degrades the experiences of the kind real sexual assault/rape which many women have had destroy their lives.

I'm of the thinking a lessor charge of assault would have been more fitting.

I am not entirely sure that we are the best arbitrators of what real sexual assault is. The "prank" is only allegedly funny because of the fact that a sexual organ was used and it is meant to be humiliating for the victim.

 

[elmarko]

I am not entirely sure that we are the best arbitrators of what real sexual assault is. The "prank" is only allegedly funny because of the fact that a sexual organ was used and it is meant to be humiliating for the victim.

You are correct - real sexual assault perhaps isn't the best term, perhaps "clear cut/with no subjective elements & more serious would be a better phrase to use" (although somewhat clumsier & unwieldy). We can at least all agree that on the scale of sexual assault there are many different levels of severity (ranging from a pinch in the bottom to forced sexual molestation at knife point).

In this case I'm still not convinced it's sexual in nature.

But you make a point, I'm no expert on this & I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong on this if it's the case, but at least anecdotally none of the women I've spoken to about this story seem to see it as sexual assault either (a number of which have been victims of it). While I appreciate this isn't evidence at all, it's the best I have at this time (along with my moral own intuition on the matter).

Don't get me wrong I'm not arguing it should be permitted & he deserves no punishment, just the nature & severity of it - also take into account my views on crime & punishment are very much based on the protection of the public & rehabilitation. I don't agree with punishing for the sake of punishment (it's ultimately pointless & in this case I don't think a 9 months prison sentence helps anybody, or protects society - as I'm not convinced he's a danger)

 

[RDM]

You are correct - real sexual assault perhaps isn't the best term, perhaps "clear cut/with no subjective elements & more serious would be a better phrase to use" (although somewhat clumsier & unwieldy). We can at least all agree that on the scale of sexual assault there are many different levels of severity (ranging from a pinch in the bottom to forced sexual molestation at knife point).

In this case I'm still not convinced it's sexual in nature.

Yes there are different scales, but I would certainly put this act on the scale. I would in fact rate it much higher than a pinch on the bottom. The idiot draped his penis over an unconscious girls face. So as such I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for him.

 

[elmarko]

Yes there are different scales, but I would certainly put this act on the scale. I would in fact rate it much higher than a pinch on the bottom. The idiot draped his penis over an unconscious girls face. So as such I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for him.

I'm not sure you need to have sympathy, just consider if the level of punishment is proportionate to the risk he poses to the public & his requirement for rehabilitation.

 

[JonJ678]

There's funny stuff in the metro.

studies criminology at Nottingham Trent

future career in law

 

[gambitt]

While the feelings of the victim matter, they are not the only factor to take into account.

Shaving off her hair would be degrading, as would somebody drawing on her face or doing any act to embarrass her in her sleep while recording it. The degrading part isn't intrinsically linked to it being classified as 'sexual'.

It is degrading yes, but there are also plenty of legal ways of degrading a person.

We can't have a criminal justice system directly linked to the feelings of the victim as we would have anything from the death penalty to no penalty for the same crimes - simply put we all react differently & really we can only expect people to react the same way a majority of the population would.

Wow, someone who gets it.

We already have selective justice in the UK. Many identical crimes can attract both a prison sentence and a no-further-action depending on trivial factors (background of the accused, whether police/CPS can be bothered, judge chose to "make an example" etc). Judges are a fickle bunch. Solicitors advise that don't bring up too many details about the crime to defend yourself, just tell the judge what a nice family person you are otherwise he might send you down for longer for "annoying him".

 

[TommyV]

Bloody feminists.

 

[cheesyboy]

Bloody feminists.

Nothing to do with feminism, son.

In fact, I'm one of the guys saying that slapping an unconscious woman with your knob is all fun and games, yet am actually not a million miles off of being a male feminist.

(Check the GD thread "women's rights have gone too far" where I was just about the biggest feminist sympathiser in there)

The guys supporting this prosecution in this thread are generally the anti-feminist types.

 

[spudbynight]

We had a little discussion over lunch at work about this and surprisingly (or not as the case may be) all five women in our group thought the sentence was way overboard, while they said it was disgusting, none of them thought it was sexual assault, or even assault and two of them thought that it should not have been a matter for the police at all as they thought it was just drunken plebs being daft. On the other hand all of the blokes, except me, thought that he should have been banged up longer and a couple thought that it was akin to raping someone, which didn't go down too well with the ladies and at which point we changed the subject.

Go figure!

Funnily enough the view of those woman is pretty much exactly how I view this.