Benefits a magnet to migrants.
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
Dear god it hurts to read this thread. Personal offense ahoy.
Now lets do The British thing which all proud British people with British heritage and British honour do. Blame the immigrants. *Picard facepalm*
Most English families are in fact foreigners if you look back far enough. Either from Nordish lands, Indian descent (1960s especially) or a mixture of European or Celtic. We've been invaded more times than the Middle East.
There are very few true, dare I say "pureblood" English. Why would we stop the immigration process considering our history of adopting foreign culture into our own? Plus we're a very diverse country in terms of population, I don't understand how people can see that as a bad thing.
Alternatively can we agree to disagree and leaving it there. Damn, this thread is not to the usual OcUK GD standards (as bad as said standards are).
Now lets do The British thing which all proud British people with British heritage and British honour do. Blame the immigrants. *Picard facepalm*
Most English families are in fact foreigners if you look back far enough. Either from Nordish lands, Indian descent (1960s especially) or a mixture of European or Celtic. We've been invaded more times than the Middle East.
There are very few true, dare I say "pureblood" English. Why would we stop the immigration process considering our history of adopting foreign culture into our own? Plus we're a very diverse country in terms of population, I don't understand how people can see that as a bad thing.
Alternatively can we agree to disagree and leaving it there. Damn, this thread is not to the usual OcUK GD standards (as bad as said standards are).
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I disagree - it's pretty much exactly standard GP faire: racist and ignorant. For a start, most of the "asylum seekers" are young healthy men, and thus don't need the NHS. For a second, most have never even heard of Social Security until they arrive in Calais, where they are preyed upon by various people who will "help" them fill out the forms in return for a cut. Of course the Sun can find someone who claims they want to Sign On. I wonder how much they were offered to say that? Or how many they had to ask before they got the answer that they wanted.
In practice most have either a) fled a country so bad that they don't care what awaits them, or b) want to work, not collect benefits. To point out the mildly obvious (but apparently not): it takes a shed-load of gumption and energy to give up everything at home and head for a new country. Do you really think the first on the transports would be the ****less?
Oh, and almost all of them speak English, before we go down that route.
^
That's a lot of assumptions and leaps of faith there, any facts to back up your assumptions that the men that come over are healthy? Poverty usually means the person suffering from poverty are far from healthy, at least, thats what the liberal and left would have us believe, can't have it both ways.
That's a lot of assumptions and leaps of faith there, any facts to back up your assumptions that the men that come over are healthy? Poverty usually means the person suffering from poverty are far from healthy, at least, thats what the liberal and left would have us believe, can't have it both ways.
Dear god it hurts to read this thread. Personal offense ahoy.
Now lets do The British thing which all proud British people with British heritage and British honour do. Blame the immigrants. *Picard facepalm*
Most English families are in fact foreigners if you look back far enough. Either from Nordish lands, Indian descent (1960s especially) or a mixture of European or Celtic. We've been invaded more times than the Middle East.
There are very few true, dare I say "pureblood" English. Why would we stop the immigration process considering our history of adopting foreign culture into our own? Plus we're a very diverse country in terms of population, I don't understand how people can see that as a bad thing.
Alternatively can we agree to disagree and leaving it there. Damn, this thread is not to the usual OcUK GD standards (as bad as said standards are).
Sorry, but you are you really saying that because we've been invaded before in the past we shouldn't mind if we're being invaded again?
Of course not. Very much aware how UKIP supporters see this as some sort of "invasion", trying to cater to UKIP so they can understand me.
Immigration was a lot higher during the 60s from India. Also a time when people thought we were being invaded. It was to our benefit then and it is again today.
It boils down to people either fear or they love to project fear onto others to either control them or be supported by them.
The biggest problem in my area for instance is white people. I'm white myself and I'm ashamed to see people attacked in the street by barbaric thugs calling themselves UKIP / EDL / BNP supporters. You'd think with the public education system they could determine the difference between an Indian and a Muslim but obviously not.
All this fearmongering is dumb. If you see a diverse group of people from a diverse range of backgrounds as a threat then it's more of a mental health issue IMHO. Immigrants == Asylum seekers. Some people will always exploit any system regardless of what that system is. One or a two bad apples doesn't project on the whole.
Soldato
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The difference being those people were invited and encouraged at the time by government for a specific reason, to fulfil a skills shortage in the UK.
That is contextually rather different than having zero border control and letting businesses attract foreign labour not due to man power deficit but to drive down wages at the bottom.
Soldato
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It amazes me we have to be told by the French what should be plainly obvious.
The theory is they come from the EU and are immediately entitled too under EU law any benefits that a UK citizen is entitled too. That means they can sign on for jobseekers, claim tax credits, join housing lists, request housing/council tax benefit. In addition they get the free health care etc (I state free as they have not paid into the UK system) and get a pension.
If they are outside the EU they can come here being confident that the UK lives in fear of violating human rights laws. Even if they fail in the asylum process the UK has a pretty appalling record of returning people home.
Then they have the world of the black economy where they can simply melt away into communities never to be seen again.
This is the price we pay for having a very generous welfare state.
The theory is they come from the EU and are immediately entitled too under EU law any benefits that a UK citizen is entitled too. That means they can sign on for jobseekers, claim tax credits, join housing lists, request housing/council tax benefit. In addition they get the free health care etc (I state free as they have not paid into the UK system) and get a pension.
If they are outside the EU they can come here being confident that the UK lives in fear of violating human rights laws. Even if they fail in the asylum process the UK has a pretty appalling record of returning people home.
Then they have the world of the black economy where they can simply melt away into communities never to be seen again.
This is the price we pay for having a very generous welfare state.
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Actually, they were actively discouraged and prevented from settling in UK. The "we are full", "too many of them coming" and "it doesn't look like our town anymore" rhetoric was omnipresent throughout 50ies, 60ies and 70ies and forces behind it were much more powerful politically. 1960ies Nigel Farage was called Enoch Powell (although that's unfair to Enoch, there is an intellectual abyss between the two individuals) and his rhetoric attracted vote of almost identical electorate spectrum to that enjoyed at present by UKIP.
There are fantastic digitised reportages and documentaries available on youtube showing people interviewed about immigration issues of the time and it's uncanny how little changed in catch phrase driven vocabulary of the "send them back" proponents over 40 or 50 years.
Soldato
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dem immigruntz coming here taking our jobz and stealing our daughterzzzz!!!!!1111
Soldato
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Yes, because it's so much easier to call someone a racist than it is to actually debate the immigration issue in a sensible manner.
Standard Gaurdianista tactics.
That story is from 2010. There's a £500 a week cap on benefits now.
Also, the person in the story is a former asylum seeker. We've got a duty to help genuine asylum seekers.
Following the Lampedusa migrant shipwreck in 2013 the Italians have carried out Operation Mare Nostrum, an operation they can hardly afford.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27499877
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-eu-27866849
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24396020
I don't know how 'anyone' can turn away an asylum seeker with a clear conscious.
Its inhuman to think you wont help people in need.
The only problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff.
sidenote
this is the stupidest boat i've ever seen.
Its inhuman to think you wont help people in need.
The only problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff.
sidenote
this is the stupidest boat i've ever seen.
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Soldato
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You've missed my point.
I wasn't talking about the general public's or a few outspoken MPs' attitudes to immigrants, I was talking about the how that migration came about.
The colonial immigrants that came in the 50s did so at the government of the day's behest, there was no 'freedom of movement' then and our government could have stopped them if they wanted to. But, as I said, they were invited to come by our government...
That is fundamentally different to being in a scheme where the government have no control over the numbers and skills that can come here.
No one is going to argue that the "I don't like darkies" mob are idiots and wrong in their anti-immigration stance. However, having a problem with an open door policy which the host nation has no control over at all does not automatically put you in that camp.
It is very reasonable and logical thing to question and to paint anyone that does as being no different to a guy in the 50s painting "P**** GO HOME!" is disingenuous and which I believe jake108 was trying to do.