Home extension Architect or builder for plans?

[DB_SamX]

Fees seem reasonable to me as a structural engineer who has done house extensions. Just make sure they are Chartered Engineers.

Planning can be a pain. What the architect suggested with a pre-planning enquiry is spot on. You have to bear in mind that having professionals on board will ensure you have something safe built, and the necessary paperwork in place. Important when it comes to getting house insurance and selling at a later day.

Friend of mine just bought a house which didn't had an extension built over sewers without a build-over agreement. Had to fork out more for the insurance as a result.

 

[Participant]

Yes you are wrong.....I deal with building warrants every day of the week. Its my job!

You deal with them in Scotland. Maybe it's different in England?

 

[Derek W]

You deal with them in Scotland. Maybe it's different in England?

The wording and layouts of the regulations may vary between the two (I had a look at part of the English regulations last night) but ultimately they're the same and also both refer to the 'British Standards' which govern the whole of the UK.

 

[Jez]

Strange too that it's bigger than many houses, yet too small to be priced sensibly for most architects.

Its not too small to be priced sensibly, although i should perhaps get further quotes. I think a lot of people would suck the fees up and get the architect to see the whole thing through. I hate spending out on regulatory fees though, its completely dead money so i will try and skirt this through with the minimum professional input needed. I will do the same with the physical build, i will be doing a large amount of the work myself.

Derek W - i really dont know what you mean with regard to a building warrant. Here in England you dont have to do anything, you can build what you like domestically with no notice whatsoever and then go through a process called regularisation afterwards if you wanted to. Alternatively you can give notice of works in advance with no plans and then get it checked as you go (you just give notice, you dont need to receive a warrant or permit). The third and final most complete method is to submit full plan approval.

What i will end up doing i am not sure as i say, i will need to speak with builders once the planning permission is done

 

[Jez]

I'm looking at glass extensions now which I quite different to the OP so apologies for the hijack! Anyone have experience with this?

I'm talking something like this (if not identical):

Looks very cool but i think something like that would end up costing even more than a stone/brick structure (bespoke glass like that is very expensive!) and would ultimately feel like a conservatory. Conservatories never really feel like "real" space and i would fear that you'd spend the money and end up with a room which doesnt really feel part of the house.

 

[tom_nieto]

I think if we were 100% sure of our design and weren't in a conservation area which gives challenges not only in planning but potentially at resale time, we might have just gone with a builder straight off. We are only going for a single storey rear extension, I think quite a few builders could have worked from simple designs and a structural engineers report for steelwork.

It's a tricky one, but given the scale of your intended project if it were me I think I'd go with a proper design service. I seriously think that in terms of resale that a really well designed extension will not only help sell the house faster but might command a higher price. I do think an architect will help keep an extension current - they can in my opinion look very dated or even out of place if they're not well thought out.

Have you thoroughly researched permitted development options?

 

[tom_nieto]

I'm looking at glass extensions now which I quite different to the OP so apologies for the hijack! Anyone have experience with this?

I'm talking something like this (if not identical):

This sort of thing is incredible in an urban environment, but I agree with Jez that they can be a bit conservatory like. Not that I don't agree with a lot of glazing in an extension!

 

[tom_nieto]

Oh, and as far as building regulations go, you submit plans to the council (and a fee ) and they periodically visit the site to sign off works. It's not got anything to do with the planning process. From my discussions, I don't think they discuss at all with the planning office.

 

[Jez]

I think if we were 100% sure of our design and weren't in a conservation area which gives challenges not only in planning but potentially at resale time, we might have just gone with a builder straight off. We are only going for a single storey rear extension, I think quite a few builders could have worked from simple designs and a structural engineers report for steelwork.

It's a tricky one, but given the scale of your intended project if it were me I think I'd go with a proper design service. I seriously think that in terms of resale that a really well designed extension will not only help sell the house faster but might command a higher price. I do think an architect will help keep an extension current - they can in my opinion look very dated or even out of place if they're not well thought out.

Have you thoroughly researched permitted development options?

We dont have any permitted dev rights due to conservation area rules sadly, permitted development also only allows for a structure which doesnt give us the space which we want. The plan we have is an all or nothing thing really, if we cannot build as much as want to build then we will probably just sell the house and move instead. Our main issue with moving (we have been trying to move for a while before we decided to build instead) is that we just cannot find anything which we are happy with locally. Stamp duty is also utterly mental to the point that i dont know if i can face paying it again

Re the design, yes it will certainly be designed by the architect. The fees i would like to avoid are the "dead" ones i mentioned above, site plans, building control stuff, all stuff which we never see again once its built.

 

[Jez]

Oh, and as far as building regulations go, you submit plans to the council (and a fee ) and they periodically visit the site to sign off works. It's not got anything to do with the planning process. From my discussions, I don't think they discuss at all with the planning office.

Yep its totally separate, you dont even have to use the council for building control. I mentioned earlier but from what i can see a private company seems a better bet to me, they have a vested interest in keeping you happy as a customer (Read: They should be less of a PITA )

 

[tom_nieto]

Sorry, I re-read the earlier posts and saw the conservation area. Have other properties successfully extended? Our neighbours have a massive extension, but apparently this didn't count as a precedent being set.

We've really just gone straight to the council and paid all these fees, I didn't really investigate other options regarding building control. In the grand scheme of things I felt that it represented a pretty small outlay, although I agree they do mount up - I think we're about £500 over what we initially expected. You sound like you're well versed with the buying and selling process, the one thing we were very aware of was the complexity of our conservation area and our deeds. Without everything being completely above board with council stamps, I think solicitors would start becoming nervous. Once that happens potential buyers tend to start demanding compensation for extra surveys or delay until further investigations are made.

Stamp duty is painful and unavoidable, but if you're unable to transform your current house you're stuck. The real problem is that you'll have spent a load of cash getting to the point of getting planning permission which you'll definitely not see back if it's turned down. Property is an expensive game. Are you expecting to add a lot of value with the extension or is it more to future proof your house for your needs?

 

[tom_nieto]

Yep its totally separate, you dont even have to use the council for building control. I mentioned earlier but from what i can see a private company seems a better bet to me, they have a vested interest in keeping you happy as a customer (Read: They should be less of a PITA )

The thing is, I can't see how the council would be any more of a pain than a private company. The builders should be quite clear on the regulations and the plans should take these things into account. The only problem that I can forsee for us is that if we go up into the loft, building regs might require changing all the doors due to fire regulations, which would be a shame as they're a nice reminder that our house is actually quite old. The reduced price of a private company is definitely a bonus.

 

[ichabod crane]

For what it is worth I will give my input, the planning stage is the easy part, yes it is a lot of hoop jumping and what seems to be a tedious task! So long as what you are proposing is of merit and you have done your research as to what is reasonable in your locality planning approval should always be achievable.

Should you get a refusal from the local planning authority you can always go to appeal and from experience most appeals are approved, generally because it removes the heavily opinionated approach of the local planning authority.

I disagree with your approach to use a contractor on a building notice to approach what appears to be a fairly substantial development, as an architect I am of course biased and would recommend you seek professional assistance. But in my opinion you would be placing your reliance for both a decent build and regulation compliance in the hands of the wrong person and more importantly in one person, a contractor does one thing they build and generally they build what they are told and if they have nothing to build from they generally build how they think it should be done and the issue here is this won't always be the best way it should be constructed or to the current regulations. (Caveat not all builders are the same and I am sure there are some out there who could do a great job under these circumstances)

Also any mistakes made during the construction that have to be rectified will have to be paid for, and of course you will be paying for that not the contractor, as you would have no specification or drawn information saying it should have been built this way or that way, also under contract it would be very difficult for you to withhold payments for non approval as the contractor would be entitled for payments of work carried out and materials purchased, in the light of a non approval you would more than likely have to go down the route of either mediation or litigation depending of the seriousness and agree a settlement for the works.

As a side note a registered architect must hold PI insurance and with this when you appoint them to produce working drawings and construction information you will have a fee agreement and appointment in place that holds them accountable for the information produced and the works performed from it. (this also depends on if you are working with a registered architect or someone who provides architectural services, but this is a discussion for another time)

So essentially this would mean the architect is tied to the development for 6 years post completion (if carried our underhand which most small projects are) and during construction accountable for its compliance with local and national regulations.

I hope that makes some sense and is of some use.

 

[Jez]

Sorry, I re-read the earlier posts and saw the conservation area. Have other properties successfully extended? Our neighbours have a massive extension, but apparently this didn't count as a precedent being set.

We've really just gone straight to the council and paid all these fees, I didn't really investigate other options regarding building control. In the grand scheme of things I felt that it represented a pretty small outlay, although I agree they do mount up - I think we're about £500 over what we initially expected. You sound like you're well versed with the buying and selling process, the one thing we were very aware of was the complexity of our conservation area and our deeds. Without everything being completely above board with council stamps, I think solicitors would start becoming nervous. Once that happens potential buyers tend to start demanding compensation for extra surveys or delay until further investigations are made.

Stamp duty is painful and unavoidable, but if you're unable to transform your current house you're stuck. The real problem is that you'll have spent a load of cash getting to the point of getting planning permission which you'll definitely not see back if it's turned down. Property is an expensive game. Are you expecting to add a lot of value with the extension or is it more to future proof your house for your needs?

Other properties are not really comparable to ours, i live in a semi rural area where all of the houses are individual stone built places. That said yes a lot of houses in the area have been substantially modified over the years, some of the smaller ones have even been leveled and much larger properties rebuilt on their plots.

Directly over the road from us is a large 10 bed house on a large (96acre) plot which sold last year and plans are currently being approved for the existing house to be renovated (its not modernised) and for the plot to take 6(!) new build houses - so the precedent is definitely there for building work in our direct vicinity.

 

[ichabod crane]

Yep its totally separate, you dont even have to use the council for building control. I mentioned earlier but from what i can see a private company seems a better bet to me, they have a vested interest in keeping you happy as a customer (Read: They should be less of a PITA )

The benefit of an approved inspector is that they are at your beck and call and will turn up to site or pick up the phone at anytime, the local authority will be available when they have time.

They both have to comply to the same regulations but an approved inspector will offer a margin of advise on alternative ways for approval but they will also rely heavily on your appointed professionals to know what they are doing, a local authority inspector will generally be a jobs worth!

 

[Jez]

I hope that makes some sense and is of some use.

It certainly is and i agree with all of it. My issue is that the fees start getting expensive and i am still failing to see the complexity in the plans we have. Its a basic square box

I need to get through the planning first, though. The route we take for a build is academic until then

 

[Jez]

The benefit of an approved inspector is that they are at your beck and call and will turn up to site or pick up the phone at anytime, the local authority will be available when they have time.

They both have to comply to the same regulations but an approved inspector will offer a margin of advise on alternative ways for approval but they will also rely heavily on your appointed professionals to know what they are doing, a local authority inspector will generally be a jobs worth!

Exactly what my thoughts were, thankyou for confirming that, its good to hear a professionals opinion on the two The approved inspectors are also cheaper, so it seems a no brainer.

 

[ichabod crane]

It certainly is and i agree with all of it. My issue is that the fees start getting expensive and i am still failing to see the complexity in the plans we have. Its a basic square box

I need to get through the planning first, though. The route we take for a build is academic until then

It is less about the complexity of the work and more the construction methodology and building specification, builders generally don't know the current U-value requirements and or what a cavity tray actually does!

As I said before plannings the easy bit and the fun bit, no risk and no stress just complying with the rules of the land.

Exactly what my thoughts were, thankyou for confirming that, its good to hear a professionals opinion on the two The approved inspectors are also cheaper, so it seems a no brainer.

Generally cheaper as they want to price out the LA and there are many of them so competition for work, I can't recall the last time I used a local authority inspector!

 

[Buffman]

We had a room built above our garage (15m^2) so no where near as big as what you are planning!

We got a local architect (who is also AMIStructE)

For what it's worth, anyone with the correct degree level can become an associate member of an institution, there's not a required skill/experience. (at least that's what I found in my experience with AMImechE)

Chartership is what requires the experience

Also, interesting thread!

 

[ichabod crane]

I'm looking at glass extensions now which I quite different to the OP so apologies for the hijack! Anyone have experience with this?

I'm talking something like this (if not identical):

*snip*

From experience and as a rule if it is contemporary and incorporates a lot of glass it will come with a premium cost over a traditional build, as contractors will be out side of their comfort zone and there will be a lot of specialist supplier involvement.

The majority of the glazing shown on your example picture will be bespoke and not available as an off the shelf item.