what's making all the girls/women join isis?

dowie said:
similar to what ISIS are doing - I'd hope so... it was supposed to be an explanation of what ISIS are doing

I'm aware the passages are contentious... I believe I've mentioned that before
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The difference is that they should know being 'muslims' that certain verses were revealed during the makkan period and certain rulings of the time were only applicable then (for example)

Your a non-muslim (I assume) so you know differently.

Theres a VERY clear reason why educating yourself in matters of the deen (religion) are compulsory on every muslim. One can not and should not follow blindly.
 
dowie said:
oh here we go... now it is a debate about the meaning of passages that I've already pointed out are contentious

like I've already said:
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What you posted isn't something lost in translation, it comes nowhere near.
Those who wage war against Allah == isis kill muslim cleric ?
 
zoomee said:
The difference is that they should know being 'muslims' that certain verses were revealed during the makkan period and certain rulings of the time were only applicable then (for example)
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why should they? most people try to pin Leviticus on Christians including many Christians.
 
zoomee said:
The difference is that they should know being 'muslims' that certain verses were revealed during the makkan period and certain rulings of the time were only applicable then (for example)

Your a non-muslim (I assume) so you know differently.

Theres a VERY clear reason why educating yourself in matters of the deen (religion) are compulsory on every muslim. One can not and should not follow blindly.
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that's all fine but the bottom line is that these people exist and aren't in a small minority... Islamic fundamentalism is a growing problem

It is all well and good someone sitting back and saying - oh no this is nothing to do with Islam because in this context blah etc...

There is no universally accepted brand of Islam and things like wahhabism are causing the spread of these sorts of ideas - in particular the labeling of shia as heretics and the justification of extreme violence

to say this is nothing to do with Islam can be applied to any number of contentious beliefs held by different groups of muslims - suddenly the only proper muslims become a small minority who accept exactly the same beliefs as you

it is almost like saying the crusades had nothing to do with Christianity because the bible says thou shalt not kill
 
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Amnesia said:
You want these issues addressing but you want to be able to insult and mock at will yet the other party needs to remain civilized and stay here to answer your questions ?
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Mock and insult at will? Read my post in this thread:

Xordium said:
Kids will be kids they'll join anything to rebel at the establishment. When I that age it was all anti poll tax and anti fox hunting. They don't think through and can't really envisage consequences or the scale of consequences and by and large a great number are very very impressionable and get wrapped up and easily follow friends, love or causes. Add into that mix some people (who recruit them for ISIS or encourage them to go) who can be very persuasive and manipulative then it is hardly shocking they go off on what they consider a good idea at the time without thinking any of it through. Add into that a undercurrent of sympathy in Muslim people for the suffering of certain populations even if they don't tacitly support the actions of ISIS and you have a potential brake to the process removed.
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Where exactly does that mock or insult? And where exactly did I ask any questions there.

Or is it easier to just label people to save answering difficult questions. Wonder how many pro-Muslim no matter what advocates we have on these forums have actually lived in an Islamic state for any period of time.
 
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Xordium said:
Mock and insult at will? Read my post in this thread:



Where exactly does that mock or insult?

Or is it easier to just label people to save answering difficult questions.
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it was easier to just reply to you....you can change the name of the poster on the front and the point still stands.

it makes little difference to the muslim reading what the name of the poster is.
 
Amnesia said:
it was easier to just reply to you....you can change the name of the poster on the front and the point still stands.

it makes little difference to the muslim reading what the name of the poster is.
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So you've labelled me for no good reason and without being able to back up your assertion. And you were the one moaning about people 'bashing' other people - well that makes you a hypocrite does it not. Well played there - well played.
 
I wish people would learn to keep religion a personal thing :S no religion of any kind is worth the paper its written on if it advocates inflicting your will on people just going about their everyday business.
 
Xordium said:
So you've labelled me for no good reason and without being able to back up your assertion. And you were the one moaning about people 'bashing' other people - well that makes you a hypocrite does it not. Well played there - well played.
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you can cry victim if you like but i've explained my post to you.
whether it was you making an insult or another what difference does it make to the guy who is getting insulted. why should he stay if he is getting insulted and mocked.
 
Amnesia said:
you can cry victim if you like but i've explained my post to you.
whether it was you making an insult or another what difference does it make to the guy who is getting insulted. why should he stay if he is getting insulted and mocked.
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You've explained absolutely nothing at all. Using you logic it doesn't matter whether it's Muslim A with a bomb on his back or Muslim B who has never broken a law in his life we should condemn them all the same. Again well played - really well played - you've justified the arguments of the very people who so upset you.

Why should I bother with you when you've attributed something to me I've not said?
 
Zethor said:
Certain parts of the Middle East are not that different than they were hundreds of years ago. As for violence being permissible or encouraged by Islam, that's simply not true. The Tatars, a Muslim minority in countries such as Ukraine, Romania, Moldova or Bulgaria, have peacefully lived in Christian Orthodox societies for hundreds of years. The Fundamentalist Islamists from the Middle East and some parts of Africa are not representative for Islam as a whole and they're in fact against major Islamic principles such as Freedom of Religion, as declared by Muhammad himself in the Constitution of Medina.
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But what is "Islam as a whole", or major Islamic principals, and who's responsible for its governance and leadership?

An organisation such a Islam becomes what it practices, not what's written in a book.

If Islam is a religion of freedom and tolerance, then it's a religion that's out of control.

If Christians were conducting themselves the way IS, Al Aaeda do, there would be some reaction from the established chruch.. Where is the reaction in the Muslim world, and "Islam as a whole"? Islam doesn't have a unified voice, and there is no such thing as "Islam as a whole".
 
dowie, even Al-Qaeda denounced ISIS. There's nothing Islamic in what they do, it's mass slaughter done by psychopaths who have come from all over the world to act on their violent urges.

Stretch said:
If Christians were conducting themselves the way IS, Al Aaeda do, there would be some reaction from the established chruch.. Where is the reaction in the Muslim world, and "Islam as a whole"? Islam doesn't have a unified voice, and there is no such thing as "Islam as a whole".
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There have been many reactions, and there are elements of Islam which are considered "Islam as a whole" by most if not all Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam

http://www.islam21c.com/politics/conclusive-scholarly-opinions-on-isis/
 
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Stretch said:
If Christians were conducting themselves the way IS, Al Aaeda do, there would be some reaction from the established chruch.. Where is the reaction in the Muslim world, and "Islam as a whole"? Islam doesn't have a unified voice, and there is no such thing as "Islam as a whole".
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the problem here is exactly what you have referred to - Established Church. The christians have the Pope etc to help guide and lead them, as soon as muslims talk about a caliph its like WOAH WOAH!!

And then the same individuals have the cheek to ask where is the leadership in Islam and claim its a 'chaotic' religion. :rolleyes:

You want to see a unified Islam? So would literally EVERY muslim - But no, the west will never allow a Caliph to lead the muslims - with 1.6billion muslims (worldwide) he would become the most powerful leader(if not in the top 3 at the least!) on earth. Look at General Zia and what he was rallying with arabic / muslim nations for before the CIA had him assassinated.

It serves the western nations (and others) quite well that there is conflict in the arabian peninsula and surrounding areas - The weapons industry shares have gone through the roof thanks to the Iraq, Afghanistan wars and the conflicts arisen as a result, helping the american (and other weapon supplying countries) economy.

So whilst we are quick to say here in the west that Islam is being overtaken by fundamentalists and what not - why don't we put our own corporate greed aside and let the muslims do what they want over there - oh yes, resources and power - therein lies the answer to most of the worlds problems.

The sooner we stop meddling over there the better - ISIS is of our own doing - FACT. If we hadn't have tried to 'sway' the balance of power over there we wouldn't be in this mess right now. Let them deal with their own tribalism / cultural issues and look after our own over here.
 
Zethor said:
dowie, even Al-Qaeda denounced ISIS. There's nothing Islamic in what they do, it's mass slaughter done by psychopaths who have come from all over the world to act on their violent urges.
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but there is something Islamic in what Al Qaeda do? If not then what relevance does their denunciation have with regards to whether. ISIS has anything to do with Islam

I get that there are a range of beliefs in what is and isn't allowed under Islam and that the beliefs allowing for atrocities to be committed are fundamentalist in origin..

The idea that building a state in the name of Islam, forcing conversion upon people, implementing a version of sharia law, fighting in the name of Islam essentially using Islam to justify killing people who oppose them has nothing to do with Islam is a bit ridiculous. There are plenty of wars around the world that people could get involved with if they were simply psychos who wanted to kill people... it is a bit more than that and belief/religion is playing a big part.

The denial is again like saying the crusades had nothing to do with Christianity because the bible says thou shalt not kill..

Sure there are other political factors but their volunteers from around the world have one main common factor - belief in fundamentalist Islam.
 
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zoomee said:
You want to see a unified Islam? So would literally EVERY muslim - But no, the west will never allow a Caliph to lead the muslims - with 1.6billion muslims (worldwide) he would become the most powerful leader(if not in the top 3 at the least!) on earth.
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not really. 1.6 billion people in mainly poor impoverished countries that are involved in protracted civil wars and tribal battles over ethnic and religious lines wouldn't even match up to one of the big 5.

numbers don't mean a damn thing these days.

but heck Christianity currently accounts for over 2 billion people world wide but no one would class the pope as the most powerful leader on earth would they?
 
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