Justified or gun happy?

[OhEsEcks]

I've purposfully avoided the PROTOCOL!!! arguement

Because you quite obviously know nothing about it.

as to me there aren't enough facts to prove otherwise there was an immediate threat to innocent life.

But there were enough facts for you to assume that the cops should have given the kid the benefit of the doubt and allowed him to pull a suspected firearm from his waistband wave it around a bit and claim "hey, it's not real".

Right. Sure. Dead on.

 

[wordy]

Because you quite obviously know nothing about it..

Neither do you.

But there were enough facts for you to assume that the cops should have given the kid the benefit of the doubt and allowed him to pull a suspected firearm from his waistband wave it around a bit and claim "hey, it's not real".

Who said anything about waving it around?

 

[inogen]

Fair play. The difference being that this was in the UK, not US. So reactions are different.

I don't reckon they would be. Boy in a park with a gun, refuses to put his hands up and reaches for it?

Do you remember the fella who got shot dead for carrying a table leg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Stanley

 

[OhEsEcks]

Neither do you so it would seem.

ELaborate. Since you quite clearly know so much about it as evidenced by this thread.

Who said anything about waving it around?

I suggest you go back and read all your posts. I suggest you start on page 2.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18638724&page=2

 

[balky12]

I don't reckon they would be. Boy in a park with a gun, refuses to put his hands up and reaches for it?

Do you remember the fella who got shot dead for carrying a table leg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Stanley

Oh sorry, should have clarified, if armed response would have attended, outcome would have been the same.

Chances are it wouldn't get to that point. I would argue lesser chance of public reporting it.

Even still, regular policemen would be on scene in this country before armed response would be. Might help achieve a different outcome.

 

[wordy]

ELaborate. Since you quite clearly know so much about it as evidenced by this thread.

Why don't you? You're the one trumpeting them yet haven't posted anything concrete.

I suggest you go back and read all your posts. I suggest you start on page 2.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18638724&page=2

Thank you, I will go back and edit my post to avoid further confusion.

 

[FinglisHobbit]

Fair play. The difference being that this was in the UK, not US. So reactions are different.

Nah the reactions are definitely quite extreme here too. Around that same age my friend was waving his BB pistol about and a woman walking her dog phoned the police. They turned up with an armed response and MP5s etc. My little pal got in a lot of trouble for that. He ran home and then they came knocking at his door.

 

[balky12]

Nah the reactions are definitely quite extreme here too. Around that same age my friend was waving his BB pistol about and a woman walking her dog phoned the police. They turned up with an armed response and MP5s etc. My little pal got in a lot of trouble for that. He ran home and then they came knocking at his door.

Fair play. Good to know the police take it just as serious here.

ALl it comes down too is public saftey. Police would be hung drawn and quatered if they let something happen to the public that could have been avoided.

 

[thep02]

New game for racists in the usa murder by cop.

 

[Haggisman]

Fair play. Good to know the police take it just as serious here.

ALl it comes down too is public saftey. Police would be hung drawn and quatered if they let something happen to the public that could have been avoided.

They seem to get hung, drawn and quartered by some people regardless of what they do.

 

[FinglisHobbit]

They seem to get hung, drawn and quartered by some people regardless of what they do.

This is true. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Until we know the facts about this shooting we can only speculate. I think if I was a 12yr old boy and armed police were shouting at me, I would probably panic and try and throw away whatever weapon I had. They shouted to put hands up but I do think the kid probably just panicked and tried to show them what he had.

 

[balky12]

This is true. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Until we know the facts about this shooting we can only speculate. I think if I was a 12yr old boy and armed police were shouting at me, I would probably panic and try and throw away whatever weapon I had. They shouted to put hands up but I do think the kid probably just panicked and tried to show them what he had.

Indeed. He probably did panic. There were many failings by the kid before this final one. E.g. taking an imitation firearm to a public place and brandishing it.

Unfortunate event though.

 

[Haggisman]

This is true. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Until we know the facts about this shooting we can only speculate. I think if I was a 12yr old boy and armed police were shouting at me, I would probably panic and try and throw away whatever weapon I had. They shouted to put hands up but I do think the kid probably just panicked and tried to show them what he had.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think it's pretty obvious that this is what happened.

Unfortunately, the officers at the time didn't know this, putting them in the very difficult situation of having to make that judgement in a split second. If it had been a real gun and they'd hesitated to give him the benefit of the doubt, we could be reading about 2 dead 12 year olds, or a dead 12 year old and police officer.

 

[disco_hospital]

They have loads of effective, non-lethal ways to neutralise threats. However they are not used when it comes to firearms because the only way to neutralise someone with a gun is to kill them.

As I said, further r+d needed.

 

[MooMoo444]

It's a child, so no way of knowing what they are gonna do. He reached for the gun instead of putting his hands up. Kinda forces the cops do shoot. For all they knew he was gonna pull it out and put a few rounds in some kids.

Seems a fair result to me.

 

[zuludawn]

The real issue here is that he made a (toy gun) look like a real firearm and displayed it in public maybe in a threatening manner who knows. If it still had the orange band on the front would a phone call be made in the first place, is it common knowledge in America that this indicates that it is not a firearm, or is it just as bad waving around a BB gun in public.

 

[Haggisman]

The real issue here is that he made a (toy gun) look like a real firearm and displayed it in public maybe in a threatening manner who knows. If it still had the orange band on the front would a phone call be made in the first place, is it common knowledge in America that this indicates that it is not a firearm, or is it just as bad waving around a BB gun in public.

The problem with this is, what's to stop someone painting the tip of their real gun in dayglo orange to try and pass it off as a toy?

 

[zuludawn]

The problem with this is, what's to stop someone painting the tip of their real gun in dayglo orange to try and pass it off as a toy?

True i did think about that as well, but then they would have had a real agenda for doing that i guess.

 

[MooMoo444]

The problem with this is, what's to stop someone painting the tip of their real gun in dayglo orange to try and pass it off as a toy?

Why would you though? So you can rob a shop with it? They'd just assume it was a toy and that you're high on something.

 

[bloodiedathame]

"Where were the parents?"

Probably at home while the child is playing outdoors. I used to play with BB guns and my parents didnt have a clue about it. Because I kept it secret and had them hidden.

My parents certainly werent neglectful either.

Did you ever wave them about in public causing public concern?

If not then your parents did a good job.

Ownership is one thing, what you do with them is another.