EU court blocks gay asylum tests

[anything I don't mind]

They are doing it to escape persecution. Perhaps they feel that they will not be accepted in the communities in South Africa. As I said before, if they wanted handouts, we are not the top country for them.

They can escape persecution in many countries that don't have generous welfare states. Yes and all these countries with the biggest welfare states have the most asylum seekers.

 

[TheBDog]

They can escape persecution in many countries that don't have generous welfare states. Yes and all these countries with the biggest welfare states have the most asylum seekers.

Yes, but, given the choice in that situation, it'd be dumb to seek asylum in a place which is not at the top of the list. It's not surprising, it's common sense.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

They can escape persecution in many countries that don't have generous welfare states. Yes and all these countries with the biggest welfare states have the most asylum seekers.

Yes, and it's hardly surprising that they do. I don't really understand your point.

If I lived in some part of Africa where I was persecuted for being gay, I personally don't think that I would seek asylum in Africa. It's not really the most gay friendly place in the world. There is a hell of a lot of ignorance in Africa, and lack of scientific education. There is also too much religion.

 

[elmarko]

They can escape persecution in many countries that don't have generous welfare states. Yes and all these countries with the biggest welfare states have the most asylum seekers.

Actually it's just developed countries which have the most applicants.

The USA has a large portion of asylum seekers, as does Turkey. The argument "why are they coming hear" is frankly stupid, as a vast majority of asylum seekers are not coming here.

France & Switzerland take double the number we do, Germany over 4 times our total count of asylum seekers.

A vast majority of asylum seekers come from politically unstable regions in which border tensions in nearby nations make the prospect of moving further abroad appealing,

Not to mention the popularity of English as a second language explains why we & the USA have a large number of immigrants. Germany, as it's seen as one of the best for life opportunities leads the world for asylum seekers - we take a significantly smaller portion than they do.

Finally, as Syria & Afghanistan are the top 3 sources of asylum seekers this seems to cast doubt on the idea they are 'coming for benefits' but in reality are avoiding conflict.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Yes, but, given the choice in that situation, it'd be dumb to seek asylum in a place which is not at the top of the list. It's not surprising it's common sense.

Exactly. They are picking the best country for their finaincial interests to seek asylum in. This is economic migration, not asylum seeking.

I work with a guy who parents sought asylum from uganda i believe in 50/60s and they would have gone anywhere but there, if they could. They went to austria then got moved to a few other countries before ending up in the UK. They were not just trying to move to a country to reap benefits and using asylum as a way to do it. They were trying to escape oppression.

 

[TheBDog]

Exactly. They are picking the best country for their finaincial interests to seek asylum in. This is economic migration, not asylum seeking.

Again, as everyone else is saying, there are a select few who do this ruining it for the rest of them(as always).

What you're doing is tarring everyone with the same brush. I maintain that even if you were legitimately seeking asylum then you'd still want to pick from the top of the list given the choice. Anyone would do the same.

 

[elmarko]

Exactly. They are picking the best country for their finaincial interests to seek asylum in. This is economic migration, not asylum seeking.

This isn't an either or argument - a person could easily fit into both categories (If I had to leave the UK due to oppression I'd pick a nation I could settle & make something of my life), the nation of origin of a majority of asylum seekers makes your argument redundant.

 

[anything I don't mind]

This isn't an either or argument - a person could easily fit into both categories (If I had to leave the UK due to oppression I'd pick a nation I could settle & make something of my life), the nation of origin of a majority of asylum seekers makes your argument redundant.

So you are saying that no one exploits asylum seek status as a way to migrate to better countries for economic reasons?

The fact that we "at the top of the list" is the reason why would should be skeptical about asylum seekers, as they are much more likely to be using it as an excuse for economic migration.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Exactly. They are picking the best country for their finaincial interests to seek asylum in. This is economic migration, not asylum seeking.

I work with a guy who parents sought asylum from uganda i believe in 50/60s and they would have gone anywhere but there, if they could. They went to austria then got moved to a few other countries before ending up in the UK. They were not just trying to move to a country to reap benefits and using asylum as a way to do it. They were trying to escape oppression.

I still don't understand what you are arguing. Let's make it simple.

Some people seek asylum in richer countries with better welfare. Of course they do, why the hell wouldn't you?!

Some people are persecuted and feel that staying even on the same continent would put them at risk, so they leave the continent. If that's what they need to feel safe, then so be it.

People all over the world need asylum, and we can provide it. Because we are wealthy country, this costs us almost nothing.

Your objection seems to be either two things. One, you don't like gay people and are just getting arsey about it. Two, you just like to be ****ed off at things.

Please just be quiet unless you actually contribute something that's either not hypocritical, or is not just agreeing with everyone else in an incredibly tedious and roundabout manner.

 

[anything I don't mind]

I still don't understand what you are arguing. Let's make it simple.

Some people seek asylum in richer countries with better welfare. Of course they do, why the hell wouldn't you?!

Some people are persecuted and feel that staying even on the same continent would put them at risk, so they leave the continent. If that's what they need to feel safe, then so be it.

People all over the world need asylum, and we can provide it. Because we are wealthy country, this costs us almost nothing.

Your objection seems to be either two things. One, you don't like gay people and are just getting arsey about it. Two, you just like to be ****ed off at things.

Please just be quiet unless you actually contribute something that's either not hypocritical, or is not just agreeing with everyone else in an incredibly tedious and roundabout manner.

You don't get it? no surprise there.

Let me spell it out for you. People are claiming they are oppressed only so that they can use asylum to migrate to countries where they will have better economic conditions. It is not even an argument, its simply stating what is happening. You could say that it is not happening that much or that people are all so honest and they realy are oppressed.

I don't think this discussion needs to continue, ive stated what i have to say.

 

[elmarko]

So you are saying that no one exploits asylum seek status as a way to migrate to better countries for economic reasons?

The fact that we "at the top of the list" is the reason why would should be skeptical about asylum seekers, as they are much more likely to be using it as an excuse for economic migration.

What list are we the top of?.

If out of 1000 people

800 head to Germany.
200 to the UK.

(these number represent reality).

Are we the top of any list?, how do you know we are the top?

 

[TheBDog]

What list are we the top of?.

My turn of phrase there... Oversimplifying but couldn't be bothered to go into depth. I was saying that whether you're a legit asylum seeker or someone looking to game the system then you'd want to pick a country that has a good asylum seeker support system (and we'd be someone up near the top of that list, as it were)

 

[Dis86]

Nope, you don't choose to eat.

You choose what to eat. Buggery isn't essential to life. Food is.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

You don't get it? no surprise there.

Let me spell it out for you. People are claiming they are oppressed only so that they can use asylum to migrate to countries where they will have better economic conditions. It is not even an argument, its simply stating what is happening. You could say that it is not happening that much or that people are all so honest and they realy are oppressed.

I don't think this discussion needs to continue, ive stated what i have to say.

If you say so. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the ratio of people saved to those seeking asylum for purely economic reasons means that I don't care, as long as we're saving people.

What list are we the top of?.

Top of the top list.

 

[elmarko]

My turn of phrase there... Oversimplifying but couldn't be bothered to go into depth. I was saying that whether you're a legit asylum seeker or someone looking to game the system then you'd want to pick a country that has a good asylum seeker support system (and we'd be someone up near the top of that list, as it were)

Well, yes - but Germany, France & Switzerland are all take in more asylum seekers than we do.

Making the argument we are the 'top of the list', which we may be for some people - but that's hardly a cogent argument for anything.

(I added more to my previous post btw, slow edit saving)

 

[spudbynight]

You choose what to eat. Buggery isn't essential to life. Food is.

I think we need to avoid getting distracted as to the reasons people are being persecuted.

If Mick Hucknell was in danger of being killed by people because of homosexual acts or because they thought he even looked a bit camp he would have grounds to seek asylum. The fact that he isn't homosexual is irrelevant - what is relevant is whether people are likely to string him up or not.

 

[elmarko]

I think we need to avoid getting distracted as to the reasons people are being persecuted.

If Mick Hucknell was in danger of being killed by people because of homosexual acts or because they thought he even looked a bit camp he would have grounds to seek asylum. The fact that he isn't homosexual is irrelevant - what is relevant is whether people are likely to string him up or not.

Exactly.

 

[TheBDog]

Well, yes - but Germany, France & Switzerland are all take in more asylum seekers than we do.

Making the argument we are the 'top of the list', which we may be for some people - but that's hardly a cogent argument for anything.

(I added more to my previous post btw, slow edit saving)

Yes, fair enough. I didn't really know the numbers but I'm not surprised.

Again, I was oversimplifying. I didn't mean to imply that we were the top of the list, but that we would appear somewhere up there (I presume).

Just to continue my previous train of thought, I think that people will always try to game the system and that's why the rules are in place to assess each case in the first place.

But that's not to say that testing someone's sexuality objectively(pretty much impossible) is the only way that we can attempt to gain proof that they are being persecuted. Proof that they are under persecution or threat may still not be definitively attainable but it seems a much more logical focus of investigation than trying to test their sexuality in my opinion.

 

[phill1978]

for a moment I just thought this forum was full of racists but im glad there are homophobes and xenophobes also.. /s

why not just hate everyone that’s not you and doesn’t let you do what you want and have done with it ?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

for a moment I just thought this forum was full of racists but im glad there are homophobes and xenophobes also.. /s

why not just hate everyone that’s not you and doesn’t let you do what you want and have done with it ?

To be fair, the homophobes and xenophobes are in the minority, and some of us are extremely vocal and make sure we speak out against them.