Point worth mentioning: It was the prosecutors decision to go for murder and not murder or manslaughter (because he knew given that option a grand jury almost always goes for manslaughter, and would definitely in this case). He gambled that by only giving them murder he could get a murder indictment, he lost.
Jack McCoy would have got an indictment...
Jack McCoy would have got an indictment...
Yea' from that picture it really looks like a head lock, headlocks are normally pressure from the sides not pressure from the forearm on the throat. Trust me if I had someone in that position with my arm where his was, you're getting choked out. The hands looked clasped in the picture that is not a headlock no way. That's a way of choking and I've choked enough people out at training doing similar.
because when you hold your breath for 10 seconds your heart is still pumping oxygenated blood around
when you compress blood vessels pumping blood to the brain you have a more dramatic effect - couple that with his chest being compressed in the position he was on the floor - the reason for him shouting that he 'can't breathe' + his underlying health issues and you've got a serious problem... then a bunch of cops trained in first aid and paramedics stand around and do nothing...
Soldato
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It is possible to choke someone from that angle but not particularly easy. Will it be uncomfortable? Yes. Will you go unconscious? Probably not. You need to close off both carotid arteries to put someone to sleep with a blood choke. The cops shoulder is on his ear meaning there would not be enough pressure on his left carotid artery (from this angle the cops shoulder would have to be what's closing off the artery on that side). Of course, this is only 1 picture and he could have adjusted.
Edit - clearly not a headlock though.
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Not particularly easy no but the position is almost perfect. For someone that isn't used to being choked out or having their wind pipe closed they would go in to major panic, I know the first time it happened to me I panicked, the pain, not being able to breath etc. Like you said it's only one picture so it's hard to judge but again if he isn't used to being choked out and is struggling as it is this would have major impact on him, which it did.
The US Police are out of control and sadly the UK Police are slowly going the same way. There is of course 'Good' and 'Bad' Police, but the 'Bad' Police are doing huge damage to the whole credibility of the 'Good' Police and then things just go from bad to worse.
There's a video on the Internet that shows a homeless Black man in his 60's or 70's and he's holding a small penknife which he is apparently threatening them with, he is either mentally ill or incapacitated through drink or drugs, either way he's a very small, elderly guy... If you watch the video you can clearly see the 10 or 11 heavily armed US Police lining up in to an execution squad, not one stands behind the guy, not one attempts to disarm the guy, one fires and they all fire, several times, each. It's a while since I've seen it but there's something like 72+ bullet wounds, 12 'Fatal' wounds and over 100+ shots fired.
What's tragic is, there's plenty more similar Videos of the US Police 'Executing' the unarmed and homeless.
There's a video on the Internet that shows a homeless Black man in his 60's or 70's and he's holding a small penknife which he is apparently threatening them with, he is either mentally ill or incapacitated through drink or drugs, either way he's a very small, elderly guy... If you watch the video you can clearly see the 10 or 11 heavily armed US Police lining up in to an execution squad, not one stands behind the guy, not one attempts to disarm the guy, one fires and they all fire, several times, each. It's a while since I've seen it but there's something like 72+ bullet wounds, 12 'Fatal' wounds and over 100+ shots fired.
What's tragic is, there's plenty more similar Videos of the US Police 'Executing' the unarmed and homeless.
Soldato
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While I agree if he's never been choked before he could go into panic that is far from the perfect angle. As I said, only 1 carotid artery is being closed off in that picture (at least to an extent that would cause someone to pass out due to lack of blood to the brain).
Either way, I think, having 3 guys on top of him, struggling, the panic of being put in that "choke hold" and the fact he is clearly obese are what cause his heart to stop.
He was hardly resisting arrest.. Just didn't want to be handcuffed by moving his arms away, as in 'lets talk about this fellas'
Disgusting behavior from the Police.. Hardly a hardened criminal by selling cigarettes. He wasn't exactly going to run anywhere.
All should have been fired, and the one doing the choking, should be tried for manslaughter.
Imagine if that was you or a family member, and those cops just got off scott free !
Disgusting behavior from the Police.. Hardly a hardened criminal by selling cigarettes. He wasn't exactly going to run anywhere.
All should have been fired, and the one doing the choking, should be tried for manslaughter.
Imagine if that was you or a family member, and those cops just got off scott free !
I'm annoyed people are focusing about whether or not that hold would restrict his breathing to then completely miss that he's quite a large person and being forced down in that position could already exacerbate breathing issues.
Some people can't lie down in those positions let alone have people hold you down and and kill you.
Anyone who defends this is a horrible c word.
I normally hate protests because of disruption and riots that effect innocent people to the point of vandalism/fires/theft but.... in this case as long as it stays away from the aforementioned crime then I actually approve of it.
Policing in the states has to have a radical change, it's disgusting. You can't go a week without one of the bad ones killing someone innocent over such juvenile reactions.
Please take note that I did mention "The bad ones" as obviously there are good cops, like in everything.
Some people can't lie down in those positions let alone have people hold you down and and kill you.
Anyone who defends this is a horrible c word.
I normally hate protests because of disruption and riots that effect innocent people to the point of vandalism/fires/theft but.... in this case as long as it stays away from the aforementioned crime then I actually approve of it.
Policing in the states has to have a radical change, it's disgusting. You can't go a week without one of the bad ones killing someone innocent over such juvenile reactions.
Please take note that I did mention "The bad ones" as obviously there are good cops, like in everything.
Soldato
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For the record, I do think everything in that video is excessive and that the officers involved should be disciplined heavily.
There was certainly no Murder committed though. Manslaughter, perhaps.
There was certainly no Murder committed though. Manslaughter, perhaps.
Hey leave my ex wife out of it, she hates police brutality!
This grand jury lark seems a little too star chamber for my liking.
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Trying to physically disarm someone with a knife would be very stupid, if there is no taser etc. then they are left with really no choice but to shoot him considering he was threatening people with a deadly weapon.
This is a fraction of a second before they started shooting..
The guy was actually 49yrs old, he was homeless and mentally ill, he had a small pocket knife he was several feet away from anyone, look at the picture and tell me that is not an execution style Firing Squad, there's another 3 Police and a Police Dog (Which are trained for these situations) obscured by those 6 Police Officers. It's a long time since I saw the video and I've seen so many others very similar since so my actual recollection of the event was hazy, I just remember how sickened and saddened I was when I saw comments from people actually trying to justify what the Police had done, like you have just done.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-at-46-times-by-police-in-the-us-9826453.html
The link above does not link to the actual Video so should be Forum friendly.
Man of Honour
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A small pocket knife can kill you as well as a large one, doofer.
Soldato
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So can a firing squad evidently.
Soldato
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Surely 1 of them could have stuck one in his leg there and they appear to have the time and man power to do it rather safely without endangering themselves.
9 Trained Policemen with body armour and a K9 unit can't disarm and contain a small 49yr old man?
IIRC you are a serving Firearms Trained UK Police Officer?
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Scary.
