No, that's a follow up to the discussion about what happens to all of the existing "aliens" after UK quits EU and whether those that crossed the border before a particular date should or should not receive automatic citizenship. I'm expanding on what if you just don't give people that lived here for years any right to remain scenario.
Will UKIP win its first seat in parliament tonight?
- Thread starter Danthus
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No, that's a follow up to the discussion about what happens to all of the existing "aliens" after UK quits EU and whether those that crossed the border before a particular date should or should not receive automatic citizenship. I'm expanding on what if you just don't give people that lived here for years any right to remain scenario.
That's precisely how bizarre and unworkable isolationism would be in 21st century Europe. I'm not sure if there is anything to discuss, it just cannot happen without wrecking millions of lives.
Calm down, the parallels between modern xenophobia and historical xenophobia are inevitable in discussions like these.
Soldato
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What happens to the unmarried families? Do the EU natives get forced back to their country of birth leaving their British partners and children? Vice versa for those Brits in the EU. The whole thing would be a nightmare both for those unsure if they'd be deported and bureaucratically.
The influx of those from Romania and other poorer European countries sounds like the spin that UKIP has already tried.
Probably not and that's one of the reasons UKIP and the Conservatives want out of Europe. That pesky Human Rights Bill ruins their nefarious schemes. Theres no way UKIP could implement the changes to workers rights for example, and the HRB sure limits the Tories ability to crack down on the poor.
Doesn't it resemble reality though, robgmun? Aren't the masses following the rumours without thought or reasoning, Judgeneo?
I keep asking the same questions for 20 odd pages:
For UKIP party to have precedence at all, one has to presume at least one of the following is true:
- Britain has a real problem with the EU, which needs addressing immediately or the country will suffer badly
- Britain has a real problem with immigration, which needs addressing immediately or the country will suffer badly
If there is a problem with EU, big enough to counterbalance all the benefits of being part of the EU and worth damaging businesses and millions of family lives for, what is that problem? Give me one good, kick in the teeth reason to drop everything and run to the barricade with you.
If there is a problem caused by immigration, big enough to counterbalance all the benefits of the £2.2bln surplus, of someone being there consistently to make your coffee and sandwiches, of them being just people like you working for and living in the country they love like their own etc. then what is it. Give me one good, kick in the teeth reason to drop everything and run to the barricade with you.
If all you have as an answer is an anecdote. If your answer is some media induced outlandish speculative scenario of what may or may not happen if the entire population of Romania or even EU moves in to a house next to you, take your job and flood your schools with their children. If all you have is "but I don't want any more of them here", or "this land should be only for me and mine" and you just don't know why. If it's just a feeling that you don't really like them or trust them "aliens", and you don't really want to go into details as to why exactly. Then maybe, just maybe perhaps the problem never really existed at all. "Zombies weren't real". And there are no good reasons for UKIP to keep plowing on with their manifesto, other than to entertain myths and xenophobia?
Tell us what really hurts you, we'll see if the pain is real. It's that simple.
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Not scaremongering, just questions. What happens to those immigrants here if UKIP or the Conservatives take us out of the EU? What happens to their families, who may well be native British, or dual citizens in the case of offspring?
Vice versa for British people living in the EU that may have foreign wife's and children?
How do you solve that problem? I'm awaiting an answer.
Soldato
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There is no problem with the EU and there is no problem with immigrantion. There are localised issues with migrants (and any time of people clumped together)
Media spin makes it seem that immigrants are to blame for everything. Not seeing a counter argument from the Kippers.
To be honest we've been going round in circles for months now, all your answers can be found in this thread countless times. But for 53 pages the likes of you keep asking the same dumb questions like an annoying 5 year old asking 'why?' to a every answer. And talking to you is like banging my head against a brick wall of willful-ignorance.
I'm keeping this thread going for any new developments in UKIP
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Soldato
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Personally I've not seen any decent pro-UKIP arguments. Seeing as these forums are for discussion there's no issue with the debate going onward.
This thread, despite what you might want, isn't just for "any new developments in UKIP".
Come on - it's not going to be a problem and you know it. It's obviously not possible at this stage to predict exactly what's going to happen but it's inconceivable that anyone who is currently living in Britain legally will be deported on ID+1 (notwithstanding what a dumb ex-Tory MP said in response to a poorly asked question). Any Brexit will have to be negotiated with the EU to work out exactly what's going to happen with regards to immigration and rights for EU citizens, but UKIP aren't the Nazis and it's pure scaremongering to portray them as such.
It's a bit hypocritical of you since most of your arguments revolve around the status of your daughter-in-law, you haven't really made a decent anti-UKIP argument.
But the rank hypocrisy of V0n and Splodge in the last two pages would like to make UKIP out to be neo-nazis but moan about UKIP scaremongering, i don't have much time for those kind of people.
Even as someone somewhat pro European I wouldn't be able to say there is no problem with the EU.
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Not all points can be quantified with hard facts. Many might say that the EU has eroded national identity. I know there is certainly a strong school of thought here in Ireland which considers it to have ruined a lot of things.
I would say that the situation is akin to osmosis. People will naturally migrate to a place til an equilibrium is reached.
The problem is that ironically that people are NOT all the same, and that the mass imigration has caused problems which are only likely to magnify with time. Just like the expats from Britain that go and swamp new places, there is no real benefit.
The difference is the expats die off and don't usually leave heavy marks on a history and culture. We're already seeing transformation in parts of the UK, through undulating cultures and religions.
Where are you from v0n?
Soldato
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No, my point was that in the story v0n posted the Zombies I take to be a metaphor for immigrants. The issue is that unlike zombies we do actually have immigrants in this country.
Ask v0n, its his metaphor
I haven't actually suggested "banning people from coming in". Although, now you mention it we already ban "people from coming in". Is this something you disagree with? Do you think we should allow anyone to come and live here? Do you really think we should become the only country in the world that doesn't ban anyone from entering?
I believe that UKIP have stated that this is not their policy. Do you really think UKIP is the first party to have a member state something which isn't party policy?
You missed some i think ?
Why don't these defections result in council by-elections ? Strange antiquated system the UK still has.
Why don't these defections result in council by-elections ? Strange antiquated system the UK still has.
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"Ed Miliband: Labour taking immigration issue seriously"
"Campaigning Against UKIP, says Labour campaigners should listen to the concerns of voters who are leaning towards UKIP."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30474521
To little to late.
"Campaigning Against UKIP, says Labour campaigners should listen to the concerns of voters who are leaning towards UKIP."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30474521
To little to late.