Breaking News: Hostages taken in Sydney
- Thread starter mattyg
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Yeah, because believing there's a man in the sky who watches you and tells you what to and what not to do is completely sane right?
What evidence do you have of his mental illness?
Are you unaware that people without mental illness can carry out acts like this - that seems to be the source of your confusion and the basis for your claim that he is mentally ill... if that is the case then you're wrong in making that assumption and should perhaps look into the subject.
Man of Honour
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What if he was strapped with ex ?
Soldato
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Yeah, because believing there's a man in the sky who watches you and tells you what to and what not to do is completely sane right?
Firstly - I'm strictly atheistic - I think all religions are a waste of space and I think that people practicing them are wasting my precious air however...
Religion is a social norm in its many forms - believing in the magic man in the sky is 'relatively' sane due to social conditioning and social norms. Do I believe that it's wrong and partially to blame for a bunch of other awful cases of social conditioning, mistreatment of women, genital mutilation, subjugation of communities and effectively lining the pockets of religious leaders? 100%
Was this man a nutjob that had done a string of bad **** and would he have done it regardless of his religion - I believe that also 100% - bad is bad and it doesn't take religion to make them bad, it may give them a self righteous justification for doing it but they've gotta be bad to start off with.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/gunman-ma...xcrement-while-in-prison-20141215-127tyv.html
Does that strike you as the profile of a sane man?
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I thougt the flags being one of the things he got the hostigates to do was hold up flag in the window. He obviously wanted to send out a message, nutcase or not.
I can't answer for NSW Police or the security forces involved but I'm sure they considered a marksman shot through the window in their tactics. You need to factor in several things such as distance, caliber, thickness of glass, over-penetration, multiple assailants, explosives (kill switches, etc).
I'd have thought blowing someone's head to chunks would make it fairly hard for them to detonate a vest. But my CT experience only extends to CS:S
Then storming in and having a 30 second gunfight with him isn't likely to fare much better?
Wow at 21 hours I always thought I was like 12
Maybe he was closer middle east or something
"Deadman's switch", etc.
There is also always the chance of a 2nd person or handler who can remote detonate.
I think he was sane I do not think he had a mental illness no they is zero proof of that
There is however proof that people raised in a culture that treats women as objects and lower than men have very high rates of abuse towards women.
Really hostage takers are insane are they?
Not doing a rational act to achieve their goals namely protecting them sleeve and having their demands listened to.
But please with all you medical knowledge diagnose his mental illness for us.
Cause to me it's a man who knew he was about to go to prison for a long time so decided to either become a mryter or a hero
Pretty much what I think. He had a clear motive, and history backs up evidence on what type of person he is/was
Could be... it is even there in the quote from his lawyer - his judgement being clouded by his ideology.... so even his Lawyer is blaming his fundamentalist Islamic beliefs... And still you have no evidence to make the mental illness assumption, yet are denying one known factor - his Islamic beliefs. In fact you'd assume a lawyer would have already looked into the mental illness issue with the impending murder related charge.
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Alternatively it could make it happen... does the bomb go off when the button is pressed or when it is released? They don't necessarily know....
Soldato
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So just to understand this. You're prepared to extrapolate one mans actions into a justification to persecute an entire religion, all the people that practice it (keeping in mind that there are millions of muslims that are capable of living in a balanced society where women are not subjugated and mistreated) and you're also happy to broaden the argument away from this one man by using 'all hostage takers' as a strawman argument?
If you prefer I can use irrational, senseless, deranged, unhinged etc etc... my point remains separate from your poor attempts at semantic argument - this single mans actions are not representative of the religion, are not caused by the religion and are not grounds to persecute all those that follow the religion. The religion may be a contributing factor in a superficial way, they 'may' have been the basis for his initial motivations to turn toward a more extreme way of life but to paint all Muslims with the same brush to suit your argument... ignorant.
Ugh - I give up. I'm not targeting 'mental illness' - so I'm not going to bother with the semantic argument. My implication - even if with poor use of the term insane - was that these are not the actions of a level headed and rational individual. The whole 'well you shouldn't be attacking mentally ill people' argument is a straw man and you know it. Oddly though it seems rather odd to hand the man a clean bill of mental health and then paint those that follow a religion as being effectively insane...
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You're the only one who is talking about persecution and 'all Muslims'.... no one has labelled all Muslims as terrorists here... yet you've made an unsupported claim about mental illness, demonstrated ignorance of the fact that terrorists can be completely sane and are in denial about the role fundamentalist Islam has played here.
Lol wut??
You're prepared to extrapolate one mans actions into a justification to persecute an entire religion - No
Was this event based around religion - Yes, yes it was
The fact that one of his demands was to have an Islamic state flag delivered to the cafe would surely point the finger, at being a religious drive for the motive of this event
You're prepared to extrapolate one mans actions into a justification to persecute an entire religion - No
Was this event based around religion - Yes, yes it was
The fact that one of his demands was to have an Islamic state flag delivered to the cafe would surely point the finger, at being a religious drive for the motive of this event
Soldato
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Well I guess we'll see as the facts come out - but I personally think that it's important to separate the two. Keeping in mind that this guy was on the verge of going away from a very long time for doing a string of bad things, that he decided to go out waving a flag that he felt provided him with justification is irrelevant - especially since the majority of those that follow the religion condemn his actions.
My point is this - his religion is not to blame, the man being a crank handle, generally bad and (I'll concede until some level of mental illness is confirmed) misguided in his decision making process are. Some tenants in his religion may well have given him grounds for making poor decisions but there are many many more people in the world that follow the same religion and don't regularly beat their wives or take people hostage. Ergo... not religion despite him attempting to represent it as such.
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