New HiFi Amplifierer

Housey · 25 Dec 2014 at 16:32

I have decided I want a new HiFi amp but I am somewhat out of touch with the marketplace and what is considered good these days. My main listening room is in my summer house, which is a small room circa 15 feet by 15 feet with 3 identical walls which are made up of wooden french doors (only 1 of which opens, the other 2 being windows of matching design) the 4th wall being an arched entrance into my hallway and wall.

Currently I have a Musical Fidelity Amp and X-Ray CD player and these are wired into a pair of Monitor Audio Gold GS10 on MA stands. I will most likely add a streaming/storage device and turntable but this will purely be used for music and nothing else so my focus is on the highest quality stereo quality. Budget wise I am probablly looking circa £1500 as a maximum but don't NEED to go to that price.

Thoughts, recommendations for audition etc welcomed please.

lucid · 25 Dec 2014 at 20:05

What exactly do you feel is "missing" from the sound you have right now?

I know it's not what you're thinking of, but with a room where 3 walls are effectively glass then I'd be tempted to invest in room treatment. The space will be having a far bigger impact on the sound - particularly for intelligibility - than any changes in equipment can fix.

Slam62 · 25 Dec 2014 at 20:07

I'm sure you don't spell amplifier like that

Cosimo · 26 Dec 2014 at 14:15

Have a look at the Arcam FMJ A19:

http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,FMJ,Integrated-Amplifiers,a19.htm

9designs2 · 26 Dec 2014 at 16:31

Why have you decided the amp is the weak link? .. Agree the room will be biggest issue, but can you do anything with it?
Why not use the budget to add streaming and TT first, to enjoy more music.
Which amp is it?
Second hand ok ? You might get a nice used pre-power then...
What is it you think is lacking in the sound?

Housey · 26 Dec 2014 at 20:47

lucid said:
What exactly do you feel is "missing" from the sound you have right now?

I know it's not what you're thinking of, but with a room where 3 walls are effectively glass then I'd be tempted to invest in room treatment. The space will be having a far bigger impact on the sound - particularly for intelligibility - than any changes in equipment can fix.

I'm not going to change the room around and though I am sure doing so would have benefits I am happy with the room as it is and the stereo is there because it fits there, not because it's the best location.

Slam62 said:
I'm sure you don't spell amplifier like that

You might well be rite

Cosimo said:
Have a look at the Arcam FMJ A19:

http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,FMJ,Integrated-Amplifiers,a19.htm

Will do, will have a listen if I can.

9designs2 said:
Why have you decided the amp is the weak link? .. Agree the room will be biggest issue, but can you do anything with it?
Why not use the budget to add streaming and TT first, to enjoy more music.
Which amp is it?
Second hand ok ? You might get a nice used pre-power then...
What is it you think is lacking in the sound?

I'm not convinced there is any benefit in the per/power approach, I feel it's yet another emperors new clothes in most situations, something which the HiFi world suffers of course. The aspects I feel are lacking are power, drive and perhaps separation of sound. That is what urged me to consider a change and also there is an element of I fancy something new.

k3v · 26 Dec 2014 at 20:54

If you don't mind second hand, I'd take a look on hifiwigwam or pinkfish media, you get a lot more bang for your buck. In my experience people who spend money on high end equipment tend to look after it. £1000 to £1500 will get a very nice amplifier. I cannot really recommend anything that matches your speakers, a second hand logitech touch would be a good choice for a streamer though.

Edit: a krell kav400xi would be as powerful an amp as you'd ever need, around 1200 second hand, a unison research amp or a pathos logos if you fancy a hybrid, I'm waiting for a pathos logos myself to go with my speakers.

lucid · 26 Dec 2014 at 21:08

Housey said:
I'm not going to change the room around and though I am sure doing so would have benefits I am happy with the room as it is and the stereo is there because it fits there, not because it's the best location.

That's not what room treatment means. But if your response indicates your openness to new ideas then I can see I'm wasting my time trying to help you in that direction. Shame, because it would have made the biggest difference and greatest improvement to your music system.

The chances are that you'll spend £1000-£1500 buying a new/new-ish/used amp and hear absolutely bugger all difference, unless of course your existing amp is broken. If it's just a swap to something that's "better" then it's likely most of what you'll be hearing is placebo because your wallet is lighter.

Amps are the last thing in the chain to be upgraded. Speakers and source make a bigger impact on the final sound. That's not to say that amps don't play a part; they do. But MF versus ARCAM versus Lavardin versus Creek versus Rega vs....... etc etc is a much finer margin call unless comparing valves against Pure Class A against Class A/B and where power levels might also differ greatly.

9designs2 · 26 Dec 2014 at 21:43

Lucid pretty much sums it perfectly....

You say, "lacking are power, drive and perhaps separation of sound" then you diss Pre-powers....

Hmmm follow the herd and buy a Naim integrated? .. :rolleyes:

Make sure the room has suitable damping, low and high frequency and change the speakers.... Try Some PMC twenty series floor standers.

Housey · 26 Dec 2014 at 21:57

lucid said:
That's not what room treatment means. But if your response indicates your openness to new ideas then I can see I'm wasting my time trying to help you in that direction. Shame, because it would have made the biggest difference and greatest improvement to your music system.

The chances are that you'll spend £1000-£1500 buying a new/new-ish/used amp and hear absolutely bugger all difference, unless of course your existing amp is broken. If it's just a swap to something that's "better" then it's likely most of what you'll be hearing is placebo because your wallet is lighter.

Amps are the last thing in the chain to be upgraded. Speakers and source make a bigger impact on the final sound. That's not to say that amps don't play a part; they do. But MF versus ARCAM versus Lavardin versus Creek versus Rega vs....... etc etc is a much finer margin call unless comparing valves against Pure Class A against Class A/B and where power levels might also differ greatly.

That is not what I meant at all, explain room treatment in my context? I posted as I seek advice, not to start an emotional tirade, I don't do emotional tirades but I also don't pander to opinions I disagree with, but I am happy to agree to disagree on stuff. Fact me up I'm all ears.

9designs2 said:
Lucid pretty much sums it perfectly....

You say, "lacking are power, drive and perhaps separation of sound" then you diss Pre-powers....

Hmmm follow the herd and buy a Naim integrated? ..

Make sure the room has suitable damping, low and high frequency and change the speakers.... Try Some PMC twenty series floor standers.

Sound is incredibly subjective but please don't put me in the "well if you just need what hifi 5 stars brand" brigade. I have been buying hifi stuff since back in the early 80's when it was a bit different. Whilst I am far from being an expert (or seeking to be) I know what I like and what I think works. I tried the PMC's actually, lovely speakers.

Housey · 26 Dec 2014 at 22:01

k3v said:
If you don't mind second hand, I'd take a look on hifiwigwam or pinkfish media, you get a lot more bang for your buck. In my experience people who spend money on high end equipment tend to look after it. £1000 to £1500 will get a very nice amplifier. I cannot really recommend anything that matches your speakers, a second hand logitech touch would be a good choice for a streamer though.

Edit: a krell kav400xi would be as powerful an amp as you'd ever need, around 1200 second hand, a unison research amp or a pathos logos if you fancy a hybrid, I'm waiting for a pathos logos myself to go with my speakers.

Absolutely open to 2nd hand kit if it is good as new.

9designs2 · 26 Dec 2014 at 22:27

I still think an amp change will give the smallest improvement, I guess you have a lot of hard surface, and square shape room, so echo, ringing in the top end and not much definition or clarity in bass lines could the what's happening? Do bass notes stop and start cleanly with plenty of detail?
Which MF amp is it, general they have made some good ones, a few were known to be a bit sharp in the 80/90's...so careful speaker matching required.

Add a S/H Linn DS Streamer..... rip your CDs, stream radio and now the Tidal music catalogue at 16/44.1 FLAC files.

Housey · 26 Dec 2014 at 22:35

9designs2 said:
I still think an amp change will give the smallest improvement, I guess you have a lot of hard surface, and square shape room, so echo, ringing in the top end and not much definition or clarity in bass lines could the what's happening? Do bass notes stop and start cleanly with plenty of detail?
Which MF amp is it, general they have made some good ones, a few were known to be a bit sharp in the 80/90's...so careful speaker matching required.

Add a S/H Linn DS Streamer..... rip your CDs, stream radio and now the Tidal music catalogue at 16/44.1 FLAC files.

My music is ripped and sitting on my NAS and I tend to buy stuff through iTunes these days for ease. My amp is the old XA-1, my CD player the matching X-Ray. Both are still good devices and having replaced my old MA Studio 20's after I blew one up and could not get them fixed, even by MA, I sampled many options and preferred the GS10 Signatures so bought them.

I have used the Sound Academy in Bloxwich for years as they allow home loan (or used to) and have several listening rooms. I also have a couple of friends who own hi end stores and home install companies so can get to listen to bleading edge kit, which frankly is out of my spending range but provides an interesting marker.

My question was predicated on can I improve rather than what is the very finest options I could chose, hence why if I need to start moving stuff around, adding things to the room or standing on 1 leg whilst drinking Guinness to get the very best reproduction I will lose interest. If I can go out, try a few amps and see some improvement which I feels warrants a change then great, that is worth the effort. If not so be it and I will carry on as is. I found I wanted it louder than my current Amp would allow for.

Housey · 26 Dec 2014 at 22:38

..to add the Bass reproduction is actually one of the better parts as I get no boom as such and good roll off.

9designs2 · 26 Dec 2014 at 22:50

So you just want to buy an new amp, have all the connection to dealers you need and know what you don't want.... hmmmm sorry I'm confused, what was the question?
Naim is waiting for your call

WJA96 · 27 Dec 2014 at 09:35

I really the OP would benefit from clarifying his requirements.

I was somewhat surprised when I initially read CD source and add streaming and then a few posts further in it was all music on a NAS box and music was being sourced from iTunes.

I know very little about modern HiFi equipment (the last thing I bought I would consider HiFi was a 1994 Michell GyroDeck but I would have thought that you'll never get a silk purse from a sow's ear and sourcing from iTunes (even the "high quality" direct stream) will never give you good separation of instruments or dynamic range as these are the first things to go in the compression/decompression.

I find even modern CDs that have been "remastered" often lack true punch as they are tweaked to make everything sound loud all the time. I listen in what I would consider a largish room and even the pitiful (by today's standards) 40W per channel of my Quad power-amp will make my ears bleed at much over two-thirds volume. You do need to match the amplification to the speakers though.

All amplifiers have pre- and power stages, you just don't see it usually because they are all in the one big box. Pre- and power amps have been staples of audio for years and they are definitely not "The Emperors New Clothes".

And your listening room sounds like absolutely the worst case scenario as your large glass areas will be giving you horrific multiple sound reflections, and obviously that will be worse at high volumes.

There are many genuinely authoratitive members on these forums who will give you the right answer, perhaps you simply need to rephrase the question?

Housey · 27 Dec 2014 at 13:51

WJA96 said:
There are many genuinely authoratitive members on these forums who will give you the right answer, perhaps you simply need to rephrase the question?

I know, I'd like to think I am on of them, hence the man of honour. I'd like to think my advice doesn't start with "you're stupid you don't know what you want, or go buy with the sheep pffft".

My question I thought was clear....

"Thoughts, recommendations for audition"

I can't give you details of what is important to me other than quality of sound. If that is not enough fine, tell me that. If it isn't don't try and belittle me with snarky comments (a general point), it is truly wasted on me.

Thanks.

9designs2 · 27 Dec 2014 at 17:12

Add this to the XA-1
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STUNNING-IMMACULATE-MUSICAL-FIDELITY-X-AS100-DUAL-MONO-POWER-AMPLIFIER-MANUAL-/281542777551?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item418d41dacf

Spec of the XA-1 says, (50wpc)
To get a realistic soundstage and full dynamic range from your X-A1 use it with loudspeakers of a reasonable efficiency.
An average rating for a loudspeaker these days is about 88dB.
This should mean that for an input of 1 watt, measured at 1 metre
distance, the sound output will be 88dB which is not enough to allow for an adequate dynamic range. For proper realistic dynamic range we recommend a loudspeaker efficiency of about 95dB such as the Kelly Transducers range. These are an ideal match for the X-A1 and are highly recommended.

The MA states:-
Frequency Response
40 Hz - 43 KHz
Sensitivity (1W@1M)
88 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 Ohms
Maximum S.P.L (Per pair in room)
108 dBA
Power Handling (RMS) 100 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements (RMS)
40 - 100 W

So that should justify a new amp I guess

PMC twenty .22 are 90db so a little better on the sensitivity for low powered amps, and I'd guess a lot nice sounding than the GS10.... but then I've never really got on with MA speakers since the 80/90s.

I'd still go with looking at some bass traps in the room, and decent source/Streamer to work with the files on the NAS.....
I assume iTunes is ripping to the highest quality level?
But for 500 notes adding that power amp is an easy "upgrade" with budget left for other areas.

tom_nieto · 28 Dec 2014 at 13:08

Get yourself a decent DAC and streamer and get enjoying your music. If you've got everything on a NAS then the squeezebox touch is just about the best piece of kit to use. I retired mine as it was terrible with spotify. I've found Apple TV to be a very good solution, but I think it has to be plugged into HDMI to work, so airport express might be a better option. If you own an iPad it's a pretty neat and easy way to go. I think musical fidelity do a matching DAC to your kit don't they? Can yor CD player function as a standalone DAC?

-Ad- · 28 Dec 2014 at 17:00

Spend your time sorting the streaming of your music (backing up to FLAC etc) rather than chasing slight differences with a new amp.

If you're happy with your current sound then just enjoy, going to listen to a few others will probably lead to you wanting something new, even if you don't hear a difference. Maybe you do hear a difference, maybe it's just your mind thinking there is a difference because of wanting some new and shiny