Buying from Japan Import duty + VAT + handling fee

Werewolf · 29 Dec 2014 at 18:42

Jono8 said:
That is the issue (with the admin fee). No amount was ever agreed to and no contract was ever entered into by the buyer. Surely the admin fee should be incorporated into what they charge for overseas/international deliveries as it will inevitably go through customs.

One simple letter outlining how i had never agreed to pay their £11 admin charge had them immediately waive it (i still paid the VAT due though of course).

The contract however would have been assumed to have been agreed when the buyer purchased the items and chose the shipping option.
Every single site I've ever ordered an item from when buying from abroad has tended to have the notice that "the buyer is responsible for any additional customs and clearance fees".
With that you agree to it when you click "buy" knowing the delivery method.

Pudney · 29 Dec 2014 at 18:45

Werewolf said:
The contract however would have been assumed to have been agreed when the buyer purchased the items and chose the shipping option.
Every single site I've ever ordered an item from when buying from abroad has tended to have the notice that "the buyer is responsible for any additional customs and clearance fees".
With that you agree to it when you click "buy" knowing the delivery method.

Agreeing to be responsible isn't carte blanche for an organisation to deem you've entered into a contract with them. For £8 fee you may want to go elsewhere for customs clearance, capitalism and all that.

Jono8 · 29 Dec 2014 at 18:52

Werewolf said:
The contract however would have been assumed to have been agreed when the buyer purchased the items and chose the shipping option.
Every single site I've ever ordered an item from when buying from abroad has tended to have the notice that "the buyer is responsible for any additional customs and clearance fees".
With that you agree to it when you click "buy" knowing the delivery method.

Yes but it is no way enforceable and they know it. Otherwise they could just charge you anything as an admin fee! "You want your parcel sir? That will be £500 please"

Montala · 29 Dec 2014 at 18:52

Jono8 said:
Fed Ex. They delivered, then a few weeks later sent me an invoice for import taxes and slapped a stupid admin charge on it.

I recently received a package from the USA which was handed to me by the courier driver (can't remember now if it was Fed Ex or UPS) and then an invoice arrived later with the two sets of charges.

I promptly telephoned them and objected most strongly to their 'admin charge' which was £11 or so as this was the first time it had ever been mentioned.... and of course by then I had the item in my hands anyway.

They quickly agreed to waive this charge, provided I still paid the duty, which I was happy to do.

Jono8 · 29 Dec 2014 at 18:55

Montala said:
I recently received a package from the USA which was handed to me by the courier driver (can't remember now if it was Fed Ex or UPS) and then an invoice arrived later with the two sets of charges.

I promptly telephoned them and objected most strongly to their 'admin charge' which was £11 or so as this was the first time it had ever been mentioned.... and of course by then I had the item in my hands anyway.

They quickly agreed to waive this charge, provided I still paid the duty, which I was happy to do.

Indeed. Its seems they always waive it if you complain. I found a thread/post on a blog or something with a template letter/email. Everyone who complained had the admin charged waived. They know full well they are just trying it on.

speedk · 29 Dec 2014 at 19:36

The admin fee is just a made up charge. Most courier shipments are prepaid door to door (except duty /vat) they may try to charge you this fee for paying duty and vat to hm customs on your behalf, but technically if you have received your parcel then any import taxes have been paid by the courier to hmcustoms and hmc have no further interest ( you could in theory not pay the courier the taxes and they can't do anything about it)

IC3 · 29 Dec 2014 at 21:04

speedk said:
The admin fee is just a made up charge. Most courier shipments are prepaid door to door (except duty /vat) they may try to charge you this fee for paying duty and vat to hm customs on your behalf, but technically if you have received your parcel then any import taxes have been paid by the courier to hmcustoms and hmc have no further interest ( you could in theory not pay the courier the taxes and they can't do anything about it)

So how can I find out if the VAT and duty was paid, to not get scummed by the courier?

Energize · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:03

Some companies don't charge handling fees if you have an account with them.

I prefer the sellers that just don't declare the value in the first place though.

Pudney · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:23

speedk said:
The admin fee is just a made up charge. Most courier shipments are prepaid door to door (except duty /vat) they may try to charge you this fee for paying duty and vat to hm customs on your behalf, but technically if you have received your parcel then any import taxes have been paid by the courier to hmcustoms and hmc have no further interest ( you could in theory not pay the courier the taxes and they can't do anything about it)

Well, actually the Postal Act 2000 says that a courier can reclaim the VAT and duty, s105. It also states it's a civil debt.

Werewolf · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:31

Energize said:
I prefer the sellers that just don't declare the value in the first place though.

Right up until HMRC do a spot check on the package and work out their own value of the contents

I've heard about them doing it with DVD's and applying the full RRP for them, as opposed to the $5 each (or less) the buyer had paid.
IIRC when that happens you can have a really hard fight to get HMRC to accept the real value, given the package has already been sent without the correct paperwork once (especially if they even suspect the reason it didn't have the correct paperwork was because you were trying to sneak it past them, as opposed to a mistake).

You can mess with HMRC, but don't expect it to go well if/when they find out

Surveyor · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:35

Pudney said:
Well, actually the Postal Act 2000 says that a courier can reclaim the VAT and duty, s105. It also states it's a civil debt.

"Other charges" may also cover an admin fee.

Duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods or other charges payable in respect of postal packets to which this section applies (whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him.

Pudney · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:43

Surveyor said:
"Other charges" may also cover an admin fee.

It doesn't, "this section" refers to customs and excise enactments.

itchy · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:52

Anything purchased outside the EU is subject to VAT, Customs duty and Excise duty.

I used to import a lot from China and different goods fall into different bands.
Its a pain in the backside, all goods are subject to VAT but if it is not declared a gift
or demo product then you get hammered.

That was 9 years ago so might have changed.

Raymond Lin · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:53

itchy said:
Anything purchased outside the EU is subject to VAT, Customs duty and Excise duty.

I used to import a lot from China and different goods fall into different bands.
Its a pain in the backside, all goods are subject to VAT but if it is not declared a gift
or demo product then you get hammered. That was 9 years ago so might have changed.

It's got tighter, the threshold used to be £18, now £15.

Surveyor · 29 Dec 2014 at 23:57

Pudney said:
It doesn't, "this section" refers to customs and excise enactments.

The section refers to "duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods" or "other charges payable in respect of postal packets" which indicates the latter are something different than the former.

Pudney · 30 Dec 2014 at 00:00

Surveyor said:
The section refers to "duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods" or "other charges payable in respect of postal packets" which indicates the latter are something different than the former.

This section is, s105 "Application of customs and excise enactments to certain postal packets."

Edit: for example levies.

Surveyor · 30 Dec 2014 at 00:05

Pudney said:
This section is, s105 "Application of customs and excise enactments to certain postal packets."

That's covered by reading the the section as "Duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods(whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him."

Additional words aren't added to legislation for no reason so what is the extra bit "other charges payable in respect of postal packets" referring to?

Edit:

I see you've edited your post to add levies.

Is that knowledge or a guess on your part?

Pudney · 30 Dec 2014 at 00:21

Surveyor said:
That's covered by reading the the section as "Duties (whether of customs or excise) charged on imported goods(whether payable to a postal operator or to a foreign administration) may be recovered by the postal operator concerned and in England and Wales and Northern Ireland may be so recovered as a civil debt due to him."

Additional words aren't added to legislation for no reason so what is the extra bit "other charges payable in respect of postal packets" referring to?

Edit:

I see you've edited your post to add levies.

Is that knowledge or a guess on your part?

Knowledge. I spent 4 wonderful years doing customs imports for FedEx. In addition to customs, excise and VAT there are many wonderful additional things, such as Anti Dumping Duty, preferential rates, levies such as a charge under the Common Agricultural Policy.

Basically, that wording in s105 is to cover off any other types of charges required under Customs and Excise legislation that aren't defined as customs or excises. Not any charges at all.

Surveyor · 30 Dec 2014 at 00:26

Pudney said:
Knowledge. I spent 4 wonderful years doing customs imports for FedEx.

Cheers.

You seem like just the man to to clear up the position re admin. fees...

Pudney · 30 Dec 2014 at 00:38

Surveyor said:
Cheers.

You seem like just the man to to clear up the position re admin. fees...

Admin fees are just fees for the burden of completing the entries to HMRC. They're nothing to do with HMRC and are purely to pay the organisation for an office somewhere where a group of people spend their days non stop completing customs entries electronically and in no way shape or form anywhere near the parcels. It's somebody else who gets to physically touch the packages.

Are they legitimate? They're a legitimate additional cost to the business and they are providing a useful function for the end receiver as most people don't have the knowledge or skill to complete customs entries and HMRC sure as hell aren't going to do it for everyone.

Are they reasonable? Based on the fact I'm currently disputing a RM handling fee I'd say no

But that's because I take offence at an £8 charge for an entry that took less than 2 minutes and I could do just as easily for nothing. And the product was only worth £18 to begin with...