Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

dowie · 8 Jan 2015 at 21:53

ak22 said:
S
You make bold claims but have no facts to back up them

So the quotes I've posted don't count but your ones trying to portray Islam in a good light are 'facts'?

I'm sure you can find some nice quotes... it doesn't negate the existence of all the violent nasty acts carried out by your prophet.

Ah it's OK in amongst the killings he did some nice things too, so we can just forget about the killing bit...

Zbornak · 8 Jan 2015 at 21:55

ak22 said:
1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

But feel free to kill men.

Buddy · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:04

On the topic of free speech...

Let's totally ignore the fact that Charlie Hebdo fired one of its cartoonists a few years back for an anti-semitic article......

ak22 · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:05

dowie said:
Ah it's OK in amongst the killings he did some nice things too, so we can just forget about the killing bit...

Zbornak said:
But feel free to kill men.

Only in self defence e.g if some one is trying to kill you.

Rroff · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:14

ak22 said:
The policeman who shot & killed in video was Muslim also, but according many idiots on the forums us Muslims want to kill all on none believes.

To extremists another muslim dying like that would be seen along the lines of a martyr.

Skunkworks · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:21

Rroff said:
To extremists another muslim dying like that would be seen along the lines of a martyr.

Moderates say the extremists aren't true muslims, the extremists say the same of the moderates.

Whose "interpretation" do we believe?

CaptainRAVE · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:41

About time they got their special forces on this. If it would be here I would hope the SAS would go after these low lives. I am surprised this kind of thing hasn't happened in London for a while.

Zbornak · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:48

ak22 said:
Only in self defence e.g if some one is trying to kill you.

So you can't kill women in self-defence?

On Holiday · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:48

Skunkworks said:
Moderates say the extremists aren't true muslims, the extremists say the same of the moderates.

Whose "interpretation" do we believe?

Probably the friendlier ones.

Westyfield2 · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:54

"If you think free speech is ugly, wait until you see the alternative"

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/artic...us-avez-insulte-le-prophete_4551820_3224.html

PlacidCasual · 8 Jan 2015 at 22:59

I guess we could tot up the number of conflicts Worldwide where the Christian faith of the participants is a defining characteristic.

FlapR · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:04

Zbornak said:
So you can't kill women in self-defence?

Nope, they just stone them instead.

Raz · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:06

dowie said:
but I can... they are drawing inspiration from your prophet and his actions - the guy was a complete **** and he is supposed to be revered by you...

actually taking matter into your own hands and going off killing people - sure that part is disputed and an extremist position... even if you accept that death is the correct punishment you might not accept that you're supposed to carry it out yourself. I don't deny that what this pair did was to follow things to the extreme - but the actual inspiration for doing that, that clearly has its roots in Islam and in the actions of the prophet himself who was a violent nasty individual in the first place.

It's not as clear cut as you want it to be. There are definitely narrations that state those who curse/insult the Prophet should be executed, but this is in the confines of an Islamic state, where it would be part of the legal code and therefore punishable by the state, not random individuals. France is not a Muslim state, therefore these 'Muslims' had no right nor justification.

Saying that though, the Quran itself doesn't mention this. It's something - afaik - only in hadith and something that could have been introduced at a later date to raise the profile/status of the Prophet in response to Muslim dialogue/conflict with the empires of that time. The Quran tells the believer not to burden the Prophet with too many questions or for people to stay too long at his house (from which we derive prinicples around asking pointless questions, or not overstaying your welcome) but doesn't say anything about those who insult him?

Zbornak said:
But feel free to kill men.

Set rules of war and so on. In hostilities Muslims aren't supposed to fight or kill certain groups of people, and typically it's men that fight back. Or do you think in wartime operations the Allied forces in Iraq, Afghanistan and so on were shooting paintballs at their opponents?

B&W · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:15

dowie said:
And the punishment for insulting the prophet under Islamic laws is.... ?

You can believe in what ever you want, murdering someone and taking the law in to your hands is an entirely different issue.

Merlin5 · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:15

From the Telegraph today. I think it's brilliant. They're not laughing at what happened but rather mocking the killers for such stupidity.

Zbornak · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:15

Raz said:
Set rules of war and so on. In hostilities Muslims aren't supposed to fight or kill certain groups of people, and typically it's men that fight back. Or do you think in wartime operations the Allied forces in Iraq, Afghanistan and so on were shooting paintballs at their opponents?

Right. And in these hostilities, what is the punishment if a Muslim does happen to fight or kill this certain groups of people?

Westyfield2 · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:33

CaptainRAVE said:
About time they got their special forces on this. If it would be here I would hope the SAS would go after these low lives. I am surprised this kind of thing hasn't happened in London for a while.

Whilst the British police are unarmed and there's perhaps a debate to be had there... I'd like to think that the armed response units would have been on the scene pretty quickly and the terrorist scum would have been leaving in a body bag.

Raz · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:45

Zbornak said:
Right. And in these hostilities, what is the punishment if a Muslim does happen to fight or kill this certain groups of people?

Because there are different schools its difficult to summarise but Imam Wiki might help to a degree http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_war_in_Islam

It's a fair question but worth remembering 'terrorists' are nationless and these groups seemingly make up their rules as they go along.

The Quran itself is clear on the matter: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/articles/113432/islam-does-not-tolerate-the-killing-of-innocents

Danthus · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:45

Portillo is about to speak on BBC This Week.

Westyfield2 · 8 Jan 2015 at 23:50

OldCoals said:
Portillo is about to speak on BBC This Week.

Ta, just turned it on. Portillo normally speaks sense!