Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

asim18 · 15 Jan 2015 at 09:37

Above&Beyond said:
He was Dutch and he's correct.

Well no that's not right it's just ridiculous and it's something you'd say to a hormonally enraged/vexed child after he's punched another kid for calling his mummy a fatso.

Fighting, whether it start with cartoons, name calling, or a even a tongue-in-cheek smartarse remark, will always lead to escalation, therefore any sort of fighting is wrong.

DAIR · 15 Jan 2015 at 09:38

asim18 said:
Well no that's not right it's just ridiculous and childish.

Fighting, whether it start with cartoons or name calling will always lead to escalation. Any sort of fighting is wrong.

Unless it's right.

Threepwood · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:05

DAIR said:
ISLAM IS NOT A RACE!

Except when Islam is being racialized by the ideology of white supremacy.

Every 'Captain Obvious' knows that Islam is not a race, but a few of them do not understand that when Muslims are cast as threatening 'racial Others', assigned racial characteristics and racist attitudes; they are being racialized.

When Muslims are being 'constructed' as a race and then demonised on such constructs..? This is racism.

Might sounds bonkers, but hey. The world is round too.

asim18 · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:10

Threepwood said:
Except when Islam is being racialized by the ideology of white supremacy.

Every 'Captain Obvious' knows that Islam is not a race, but a few of them do not understand that when Muslims are cast as threatening 'racial Others', assigned racial characteristics and racist attitudes; they are being racialized.

When Muslims are being 'constructed' as a race and then demonised on such constructs..? This is racism.

Might sounds bonkers, but hey. The world is round too.

You are absolutely correct. I've tried to explain this for many many years, a few smart people get it but most people aren't and they don't.

TheBDog · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:12

Threepwood said:
Except when Islam is being racialized by the ideology of white supremacy.

Every 'Captain Obvious' knows that Islam is not a race, but a few of them do not understand that when Muslims are cast as threatening 'racial Others', assigned racial characteristics and racist attitudes; they are being racialized.

When Muslims are being 'constructed' as a race and then demonised on such constructs..? This is racism.

Might sounds bonkers, but hey. The world is round too.

I understand your logic here I honestly do. But I disagree with you on the basis that I believe that racism's definition should be the focus of attempting to justify anything as being racism, and not the context within which the word is used (despite people who would use it in the wrong context).

I also understand that linguistically speaking, I am incorrect, and that, in reality, all words are defined purely by the context with which they are used, and meaning can be arbitrarily changed by the group using the language at any time(and often is). But, in my opinion, it would certainly be more beneficial to avoid casting the context of such inflammatory words which hold their own meaning and weight in this context.

But regardless of what it's called, persecuting a group for the sake of individuals, i.e. purely focussing on the act/s of persecution itself, is far more important than deciding what to call it surely?

sigma · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:14

To your average Joe most brown people are Pakistani Muslims. From my experience anyway.

darreny · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:15

Tbh I don't really worry about extremists, they are a minuscule minority, my worry is the extra votes and followers that ukip and bnp get as a result of an action like this. Facebook seems to be awash with ppl sharing Britain first posts.

DAIR · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:17

Threepwood said:
Except when Islam is being racialized by the ideology of white supremacy.

Every 'Captain Obvious' knows that Islam is not a race, but a few of them do not understand that when Muslims are cast as threatening 'racial Others', assigned racial characteristics and racist attitudes; they are being racialized.

When Muslims are being 'constructed' as a race and then demonised on such constructs..? This is racism.

Might sounds bonkers, but hey. The world is round too.

I guess. But the fact of the matter is that anyone (regardless of where you come from or the colour of your skin) can be a muslim. It is a faith. Just like Christianity. Nothing more. Nothing less.

kedge · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:18

DAIR said:
Sad. Very sad.

An entire faith punished because of the actions of a few.

Argumentum ad populum (appeal to people) "bandwagon fallacy". Sometimes it's just an excuse for atheists, secularists and skeptics alike to accuse all religion as organizations of hate and terror and bad for the populace.There is good and bad in all people.

B&W · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:23

Threepwood said:
Except when Islam is being racialized by the ideology of white supremacy.

Every 'Captain Obvious' knows that Islam is not a race, but a few of them do not understand that when Muslims are cast as threatening 'racial Others', assigned racial characteristics and racist attitudes; they are being racialized.

When Muslims are being 'constructed' as a race and then demonised on such constructs..? This is racism.

Might sounds bonkers, but hey. The world is round too.

Bang on.

kedge · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:29

DAIR said:
It is a faith. Just like Christianity. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Actually to many it is much more, Hebrews 11:1-40 for example shows accomplishments through faith through power of reason. Proverbs 14:15 The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps. For many the Bibles teachings are an absolute way of life.

DAIR · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:30

kedge said:
Actually to many it is much more, Hebrews 11:1-40 for example shows accomplishments through faith through power of reason. Proverbs 14:15 The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps. For many it an absolute way of life.

Okay a belief and or way of life... Nothing more lol

TheBDog · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:33

kedge said:
Actually to many it is much more, Hebrews 11:1-40 for example shows accomplishments through faith through power of reason. Proverbs 14:15 The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps. For many it an absolute way of life.

Actually, this kinda goes back to square one once again.

Quoting things doesn't prove that anyone actually still wholeheartedly believes everything that is written down in the Quran. *sigh*

There is nothing definitive that anyone has said that suggests that every Muslim in EVERY country(inc. European countries etc) still believes and acts upon EVERY aspect of the Quran.

Mr Jack · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:54

scorza said:
Probably because Breivik wasn't a Christian motivated terrorist - he didn't take inspiration from the Scripture, wasn't radicalised in church and even said himself that he wasn't particularly religious. In short, there isn't much to link Breivik with Christianity apart from some vague notion of his that he was protecting Europe's Christian culture. http://www.theguardian.com/commenti.../jul/24/norway-anders-behring-breivik-beliefs

You can read what he wrote on-line (if you can stomach it), it's pretty obvious - from his own words - that he believes he was protecting "Christian" Europe from the "threat of Islam". The overall dismissal of the link is simple symptomatic of the different way in which we discuss Islamic terrorism and terrorism associated with religions historically associated with our countries. The same goes for the many smaller scale terrorist acts carried out by Christians. Instead of the shallow analysis of the insult to their religion or a response to a threat we look to the deeper causes; we should do the same with Islamic terrorism.

dowie · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:56

Mr Jack said:
Why is it so important that these attacks are described as Islamist whereas attacks by Christian-motivated terrorists don't get tagged with that religion (e.g. Anders Brevik).

Was that motivated by religion or did he happen to be of that religion?

He hardly represents the views of many whereas the idea of punishment for insulting the prophet is widely held by many Muslims even in the UK. In fact death for insulting the prophet is widely held even in say Afghan/Pakistan... they've held large rallies in support if the attackers over there.

robgmun · 15 Jan 2015 at 10:58

darreny said:
Tbh I don't really worry about extremists, they are a minuscule minority, my worry is the extra votes and followers that ukip and bnp get as a result of an action like this. Facebook seems to be awash with ppl sharing Britain first posts.

But time and time again it's these extremists that cause so many problems, to quote Bill Maher "When they're are so many bad apples, there's something wrong with the Orchard"

dowie · 15 Jan 2015 at 11:03

Buddy said:
The lack of insight you have on alternative opinions is actually quite impressive. There is absolutely no insight! Even the cartoonist in the video points out the hypocrisy. I suppose you definitely fall into the French man's camp!

Lol I'd say the same about you re those points

Though go ahead - explain what I've missed re-the journalist being sacked for example... try and explain how that is hypocritical when you bother to look into the reasons. Do you really think they were worried about offending Jewish people?

Cosimo · 15 Jan 2015 at 11:11

Anyone seen an official link to the English version (pdf) of this week's edition of Charlie Hebdo?

scorza · 15 Jan 2015 at 11:16

Mr Jack said:
You can read what he wrote on-line (if you can stomach it), it's pretty obvious - from his own words - that he believes he was protecting "Christian" Europe from the "threat of Islam". The overall dismissal of the link is simple symptomatic of the different way in which we discuss Islamic terrorism and terrorism associated with religions historically associated with our countries. The same goes for the many smaller scale terrorist acts carried out by Christians. Instead of the shallow analysis of the insult to their religion or a response to a threat we look to the deeper causes; we should do the same with Islamic terrorism.

I have read what he wrote, and like I said he talks a lot of about this vague notion of protecting Europe's Christian heritage rather than Christianity itself - he appeals to pagans, and atheists too. The dismissal of the link is because it's simply not relevant, however much you'd like to be able to say "Christians are just as bad as Muslims for terrorist attacks" it's just not a correct thing to say.

bitslice · 15 Jan 2015 at 11:19

Mr Jack said:
Why is it so important that these attacks are described as Islamist whereas attacks by Christian-motivated terrorists don't get tagged with that religion (e.g. Anders Brevik).

Always makes me lol when I hear Brevik used as an example, he went postal because his government was rolling over for the muslims. If there was no fawning multiculturalism being shoved down everyone's throat, there would have been no Brevik.