Greece Elections

[Iraklis F.C.]

I'm really worried that I might not have any olives to put in my afternoon cocktail.

dont worry son, i will provide you with plenty, if it comes to that i will come to the rescue

As for the results, well some people cant comprehend what is it like being unemployed for 4 years straight. And theres 1.4 million of them plus their families, I would be knocking my head against the wall if syriza didnt win this one. I just hope sense will prevail from both sides, lets be honest this debt is unsustainable, that goes for the other piigs too...and i hope the eu bureucrats step back a little too because the greeks feel like they are being asked to hand over "earth and water" and that gives them goosebumps

I for one, have been suffering for the mistakes of others, i was telling them over the last years (when average joe hadnt had a clue on what is debt) that this illusion will hit back hard someday, but i am one of the few that have lived abroad and can see things from a perspective that many havent.

i apologise for any syntax or grammatical errors, goodnight

 

[silvagti]

It'll fall to pieces in a spectacular fashion, and yet the left will carry on think its the right course of action.

A lot of countries and individuals will have it at the front of their mind to make 'an example' of Greece to discourage other countries from going down the same route. It's unfortunate but I suspect the people who suffer will be the poorest whilst those responsible for running the country into the ground who've actually profited from Greece's corruption and overspending will likely get away with it.

I can imagine they'll come to some kind of settlement which both the EU and Syriza will claim as a victory. I doubt the EU has much room for negotiation when it could open the floodgates for other countries like Ireland, Spain and Italy to ask for similar deals though?

 

[Mr Jack]

Is there an alternative to austerity when you're in debt?

Yes: growth, inflation, devaluation of your currency and QE/printing money. The trouble for Greece was that the last three options were totally unavailable in the Euro arrangement and any hope of the first was brutally crushed by the "reforms" required by their Euro partners as conditions for the "bailout".

 

[FTM]

surely they are shafted either way..they can continue on paying off debt

or they default and nobody will loan them a washer let alone any cash so they will have to become entirely self financing...something they have never managed

 

[Mynight]

Yes: growth, inflation, devaluation of your currency and QE/printing money. The trouble for Greece was that the last three options were totally unavailable in the Euro arrangement and any hope of the first was brutally crushed by the "reforms" required by their Euro partners as conditions for the "bailout".

Interesting thank you.

 

[Freakbro]

You could be right,
Golden Dawn look like coming third.

Just saw this on The Guardian site that made me chuckle

The far-right Golden Dawn party is projected to come third in election, despite having more than half of its MPs in jail. Speaking from prison its leader Nikolaos Michaloliakos said the result was a “great victory” for the neo-fascist party.

 

[Dolph]

Interesting thank you.

But your growth can't just be fuelled by debt. Increasing your deficit by 5% to increase your GDP growth by 1% will never solve the problem.

There is another option, you can default. However, the impact of doing this is far worse than the austerity implemented to please your creditors unless your budget is already balanced.

What Mr Jack also fails to mention is who was going to lend Greece money without conditions, and what they were going to charge. The reason the EU and the IMF stepped in was because the money lenders were not willing to lend to Greece at an affordable rate due to the risks they saw.

 

[Participant]

Yes: growth, inflation, devaluation of your currency and QE/printing money. The trouble for Greece was that the last three options were totally unavailable in the Euro arrangement and any hope of the first was brutally crushed by the "reforms" required by their Euro partners as conditions for the "bailout".

The Greeks didn't have to accept the conditions, they could have rejected them and gone on their own merry way. However you reap what you sow and while I feel sorry for unemployed families in Greece, the alternative to austerity was far worse.

How can Greece justify a better deal on debt than every other country? The debt can't be renegotiated due to the floodgates effect of everyone else saying 'I want that'.

 

[Cosimo]

Euro to drop even more on foreign exchange this week?

 

[scorza]

But your growth can't just be fuelled by debt. Increasing your deficit by 5% to increase your GDP growth by 1% will never solve the problem.

Why not? That's how private companies grow - it's called investment. Typically this investment is recouped over a number of years, so increasing your deficit by 5% to gain an extra 1% growth a year for the next 15 years would be a good solution.

 

[Uther]

I think any country that had the same level of cuts that the Greeks have had to put up with would vote the same way if they had a chance.
Are there any countries (except perhaps oil rich Arab states?) that are not running on debt? It all just seems to be made up money that will never get paid back to anyone.
What a crazy way to run things.

 

[Mr Jack]

There is another option, you can default. However, the impact of doing this is far worse than the austerity implemented to please your creditors unless your budget is already balanced.

Oh yes, I forgot that one. I'm not sure how true that is in the case of Greece and the conditions imposed on them.

What Mr Jack also fails to mention is who was going to lend Greece money without conditions, and what they were going to charge. The reason the EU and the IMF stepped in was because the money lenders were not willing to lend to Greece at an affordable rate due to the risks they saw.

As I said most of the other options were not available to Greece due to their Euro membership. The eventual "bailout" agreed by the EU has proved to be deeply counter-productive. The other Eurozone members, by failing to show a modicum of generosity, have actually done more harm to themselves than they needed to risk in order to solve the problem and, as a result, the Eurocrisis has rumbled on an on.

This new mess is just another twist in the on-going story.

 

[benjii]

What bargining power does Greece have to renegotiate? Surely all they really have is refusing to pay, but then that's effectively cutting their nose off to spite their face.

 

[platypus]

The bargaining power they have is that a lot of other European countries (predominantly Germany) have an awful lot of money invested in Greek debt.

Greece has got so bad recently that the top national manufacturers of humus and taramasalata, two iconic brands, were forced to shut up shop as they were unable to rearrange their loan facilities. Talk about a double dip recession

/groan.

 

[platypus]

As for the results, well some people cant comprehend what is it like being unemployed for 4 years straight. And theres 1.4 million of them plus their families, I would be knocking my head against the wall if syriza didnt win this one. I just hope sense will prevail from both sides, lets be honest this debt is unsustainable, that goes for the other piigs too...and i hope the eu bureucrats step back a little too because the greeks feel like they are being asked to hand over "earth and water" and that gives them goosebumps

How exactly is Syriza going to solve this though? They don't seem to have anything credible at all, just a slogan that they're going to end Greek Austerity.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

How exactly is Syriza going to solve this though? They don't seem to have anything credible at all, just a slogan that they're going to end Greek Austerity.

Massive tax increases on the well off, forced renationilsation (a nd asset stripping), state provided basic employment, reforming the housing and rental market (i.e. asset stripping private landlords and moving the housing to social stock), renegotion and writing off of exiting debts.

 

[Ilikeitblackplease]

I'm not too clued up about Greece,

If this Syriza guy wins, do you think he will be successful renegotiating a new debt deal or will the EU actually kick them out?

Great news, going back to the root of democracy, were it started, Greece is showing the banks and EU that they are sick of the total control.
The EU will now do everything they can to destroy this government because it threatens the very nature of the EU which is enslavement.

 

[dowie]

How exactly is Syriza going to solve this though? They don't seem to have anything credible at all, just a slogan that they're going to end Greek Austerity.

They're not, aside from maybe getting some token changes from the EU they're either going to delay the inevitable slightly or just screw up the Greek economy fairly soon.

 

[platypus]

Massive tax increases on the well off, forced renationilsation (a nd asset stripping), state provided basic employment, reforming the housing and rental market (i.e. asset stripping private landlords and moving the housing to social stock), renegotion and writing off of exiting debts.

I know what rhetoric they've come out with, it's a different question when they come to needing to actually pay for it.

Other than simply quitting the Euro refusing to honour their debts, then pegging the reborn Dracma to something can they actually start to pay for things. How popular do you think that's going to make them?

By "Asset stripping" you mean theft, of course.

Massive tax increases on the well off will simply lead to a migration of assets out of the country.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Greece has got so bad recently that the top national manufacturers of humus and taramasalata, two iconic brands, were forced to shut up shop as they were unable to rearrange their loan facilities. Talk about a double dip recession

I see what you did there...