That plane footage from Taiwan

[mattyg]

#1 Solid line, Green
Quote:
#2 Dotted line, Blue
False "Flameout master caution" and consequent autofeather?

52:00 (-38s)
Gear up

52:38 (0s)
Altitude 1350ft

:
#2 Master Caution - Flameout - but engine was still running, oil pressure NH, NL all not zero.
#2 Feathered
#2 Fuel flow to 250
#2 NL 50%
#2 NH 70%
#2 Oil pressure unchanged
LH Eng Bleed valve closed
#1 Fuel flow rises slightly

52:43 (+5s)
#1 Fuel flow slowly drops to take-off value

52:46 (+8s)
#1 fuel flow slightly below take-off value and stabilises

53:06 (+28s)
#1 Fuel flow rapidly reduces to 500

53:10 - 53:22 (+32s -> +44s)
Altitude 1500ft - Maximum.
#1 Fuel flow smoothly reduces to near ZERO then cuts off.

54:19 (+1m 41s) - A minute later.
#1 Fuel flow +ve but low
#1 ITT rises to near take off value

54:31 (+1m 53s) In the last few seconds - about 4s

:
#2 Master Caution Flameout OFF
#2 unfeathering
#2 fuel flow rising
LH Bleed valve still closed
#1 oil pressure just below normal
#1 NL rising through 20%
#1 NH rising through 60%

Not sure what it all means but still a scary number of things to do at the same time as flying a plane that is malfunctioning

 

[mid_gen]

Looking at the footage and knowing the terrain round there....the pilot did a tremendous job sticking it into the only not made of mountain or concrete. Anyone getting of that alive is very lucky and owes him a beer!

 

[MTA99]

Not sure what it all means but still a scary number of things to do at the same time as flying a plane that is malfunctioning

That's why there are clearly defined roles, pilot flying (PF) and pilot not flying (PNF). During an emergency the PF will carry out fewer tasks since he/she has control of the aircraft but they will have to confirm critical selections (like which engine to shutdown) to avoid errors.

 

[dannyjo22]

Not sure what it all means but still a scary number of things to do at the same time as flying a plane that is malfunctioning

They are not doing anything in that report, it's just telling you what the engines are doing. It's telling you hp/lp compressor speeds, fuel flow, turbine temp and oil pressure. Also whether the props are feathered or not. All they have done is select the gear up and an engine/s have been feathered/shutdown.

Pointless speculation that will be resolved extremely shortly as they have all the information. Not even a job that the usual ocuk crash investigation need get involved in and scramble thunderbird 8.

 

[mattyg]

They are not doing anything in that report, it's just telling you what the engines are doing. It's telling you hp/lp compressor speeds, fuel flow, turbine temp and oil pressure. Also whether the props are feathered or not. All they have done is select the gear up and an engine/s have been feathered/shutdown.

Pointless speculation that will be resolved extremely shortly as they have all the information. Not even a job that the usual ocuk crash investigation need get involved in and scramble thunderbird 8.

I got that. But I assumed that most of those things going on the Pilots were also responding to most of those things whilst trying to fly.

However still not much time to fix things at 1500ft before the ground hits you

 

[dannyjo22]

I got that. But I assumed that most of those things going on the Pilots were also responding to most of those things whilst trying to fly.

However still not much time to fix things at 1500ft before the ground hits you

Not really most of it is a quick procedure and when they 'lose' the 2nd engine at 1500ft you are just waiting for the bang. I have done no digging and wouldn't read prune if you paid me past my own airlines section (which is locked from public view) but looking at what you posted (without knowing where it came from)...

No 2 eng was feathered after it gave a flame out caution. Yet those figures (and I don't or have ever worked that type) look like the engine is doing more than windmilling with a feathered prop. More like flight idle. Which is fine until no1 eng starts to play up with what looks like Fuel pump/metering all over the place. We regularly see fuel flow like that with a Fuel HMU/pump giving up. With low flow to take off power levels of ITT that would be my best guess with that information.

So no2 was unfeathered and to be used as power but by then it was too late.

Again it's just guesswork and I have done nothing but look at what you posted. I don't work type and variations can be quite different

 

[mattyg]

Not really most of it is a quick procedure and when they 'lose' the 2nd engine at 1500ft you are just waiting for the bang. I have done no digging and wouldn't read prune if you paid me past my own airlines section (which is locked from public view) but looking at what you posted (without knowing where it came from)...

No 2 eng was feathered after it gave a flame out caution. Yet those figures (and I don't or have ever worked that type) look like the engine is doing more than windmilling with a feathered prop. More like flight idle. Which is fine until no1 eng starts to play up with what looks like Fuel pump/metering all over the place. We regularly see fuel flow like that with a Fuel HMU/pump giving up. With low flow to take off power levels of ITT that would be my best guess with that information.

So no2 was unfeathered and to be used as power but by then it was too late.

Again it's just guesswork and I have done nothing but look at what you posted. I don't work type and variations can be quite different

As a car driver. We only have 1 steery thingy, A go pedal thingy and a stop pedal thingy. And we STILL **** it up.

I have a massive respect for anyone who can actually fly a plane. So good on the pilots for giving the passengers the best chance of survival

 

[Destination]

That is seriously worrying.

I also am worried about counterfeit aircraft parts coming out of China and similar. Some have already been found in the US airforce and the number of parts found jumped from 52 in the 1980's to more than 300 in 1992. In 2012 the Senate armed forces committee claimed that Boeing aircraft are now riddled with these parts.

I remember reading about 600 starting motors that were confiscated and tested by the FAA. Out of the first three tested one immediately blew an oil seal and seized.

Quite a few years back an American budget airline was stripped of it's licence over fears of inferior parts. Some of the jet engine fans had been re-welded and filed by hand to a very poor standard.

Would Asian investigators own up if any of the recent crashes were caused by something like this?

French built plane.
Entered service last year.
The scope for fake parts is likely minimal.
I am unsure of the maintenance schedule for French built propeller planes, but if it is less than a year old, you'd have hoped little would be going wrong.

 

[Destination]

Not really most of it is a quick procedure and when they 'lose' the 2nd engine at 1500ft you are just waiting for the bang. I have done no digging and wouldn't read prune if you paid me past my own airlines section (which is locked from public view) but looking at what you posted (without knowing where it came from)...

No 2 eng was feathered after it gave a flame out caution. Yet those figures (and I don't or have ever worked that type) look like the engine is doing more than windmilling with a feathered prop. More like flight idle. Which is fine until no1 eng starts to play up with what looks like Fuel pump/metering all over the place. We regularly see fuel flow like that with a Fuel HMU/pump giving up. With low flow to take off power levels of ITT that would be my best guess with that information.

So no2 was unfeathered and to be used as power but by then it was too late.

Again it's just guesswork and I have done nothing but look at what you posted. I don't work type and variations can be quite different

Did you take into account the manoeuvres he is meant to have performed to keep the beasty from hitting apartment tower blocks?

 

[dannyjo22]

but if it is less than a year old, you'd have hoped little would be going wrong.

Why because the main parts would be new and legit wouldn't stop a ton of servicing parts being incorrect. Not that I think that's what happened.

Did you take into account the manoeuvres he is meant to have performed to keep the beasty from hitting apartment tower blocks?

No why would you think that. I just said that list had nothing to do with procedures he would be carrying out while flying. All he would be doing at 1500ft with a dual engine failure (if that's what) happened is flying. We have no idea if he missed it through flying or luck.

They already know what happened. It's just a matter of waiting for official confirmation.

 

[Flying_Hellfish]

'Wow, pulled back wrong throttle' - captain of crashed TransAsia plane

The pilot flying a TransAsia Airways (6702.TW) ATR mistakenly switched off the plane's only working engine seconds before it crashed in February, killing 43 people, Taiwan's Aviation Safety Council (ASC) said in its latest report on Thursday.

The ASC's report also showed that Captain Liao Jian-zong had failed simulator training in May 2014, in part because he had insufficient knowledge of how to deal with an engine flame-out on take-off.

"Wow, pulled back the wrong side throttle," Liao, 41, was heard to say on voice recordings seconds before the crash.

There appeared to be confusion in the cockpit as the two captains tried to regain control of the plane after one engine lost power about three minutes into the doomed flight.

Liao reduced the throttle on the working engine but did not appear to realise his mistake until it was too late.

He tried to restart the engines several times before a junior first officer in the cockpit said: "Impact, impact, brace for impact."

Those were the chilling last words heard on the data recordings, according to the latest report of the ASC's investigation into the Feb. 4 crash.

Seconds later the almost new ATR 72-600, which had 58 people on board, crashed upside down into a shallow river in Taipei after it lurched between buildings, clipping an overpass and a taxi.

Fifteen people survived but all three pilots and 40 passengers and other crew died in the second crash involving a TransAsia ATR plane in a year.

A source with direct knowledge of the report told Reuters on Wednesday the working engine had been shut off.

Now that is scary.

Source

 

[Xordium]

The Guardian has some more interesting information:

However, the report showed that Liao failed the simulator check in May 2014 when he was being evaluated for promotion. Assessors found he had a tendency not to complete procedures and checks, and his “cockpit management and flight planning” were also found wanting.

He passed after a second simulator check in June and was promoted to captain, although similar problems were detected during training in July last year.

Instructors commented at the time that he was “prone to be nervous and may make oral errors during the engine start procedure”, and displayed a “lack of confidence”, the report shows.

Issues cropped up again during training for the ATR 72-600 in November, when an instructor said Liao “may need extra training” when dealing with an engine failure after take-off.